Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Huh. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Ein. Definitely a nasty bastard, that one.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Ein
Here's a new quote:
Edited by cwallace135 on Feb 8th 2024 at 6:24:05 AM
I hate spoilers
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm a little iffy on that quote. He says "peace has returned", which might not be something that a CM should say, even if they are a NSWIE. Also, people without context might be confused as to what he's trying to say.
Edited by 227someguy on Feb 8th 2024 at 10:31:04 AM
Everyone look at my sandbox
That quote doesn’t work for this trope.
As a general rule, if you’ve gotta add a description of what the villain is doing while they say the line to get it to fit, it won’t stand alone.
Edited by 43110 on Feb 8th 2024 at 10:51:13 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Daddy, Yoon, Demon, Ein, Tarkin and a big yes for Hordak, great work Geode!
Here's Frieza's writeup. He should go after the other Frieza in the Masako X tree.
- What If Bardock Convinced The Saiyans? (link): Frieza is the ruler of the Frieza Force who despises the Saiyan race. Attempting to eradicate the Saiyan race, Frieza blows up their home planet, shooting down any escape pods that fly in his direction. Upon finding out that there are survivors of his attack, Frieza tasks Nappa with finding them so that he can finish what he started. When Nappa and Zarbon fail to defend one of Frieza's planets from a Saiyan attack, Frieza kills Zarbon for his failure. Frieza then begins to repeatedly mortally wound Nappa in order to trigger his Zenkai Boosts so that he will get stronger, as well as using him to vent his anger over his falling empire. After Nappa eventually breaks from this, he tasks the Saiyan to guard another planet where he slaughters half of the attacking force. When Nappa breaks free from Frieza's control thanks to Vegeta, he coldly executes him due to having no more use for him.
I don't know or care what order they're in, Paasch is the Disc-One Final Boss while Karanis is the actual Big Bad
- The Queen Of Days by Greta Kelly:
- Governor Paasch is a smug, ambitious man willing to do anything to gain power. Working for the god-like Ankaarans, Paasch had Karanis hit the city of Cothis with years of ferocious hurricanes killing thousands. Paasch then claimed the gods had forsaken the city's ruling family the Vadalens and staged a coup against them to make himself governor, and tried to have the entire Vadalen family slaughtered down to the children. Later Paasch arranges at the consecration of a new temple for the temple to drain the time out of hundreds of workers there to allow Karanis to enter his world and begin an Ankaaran invasion to conquer humanity.
- Karanis, the supposed god of the sea, is the Ankaaran tasked with beginning their conquest of humanity. Working with Paasch, Karanis hit the city with deadly hurricanes to help Paasch gain power. Karanis later gruesomely drais the time out of hundreds of people to enter the human world and steals Paasch's body to possess when the ceremony is interrupted by Balthazaar "Bal" Vadalen and his niece Tassiel "Tass" by stealing half of the idol he was going to possess. Karanis the abducts Bal's little sister Mira, threatening to kill her if he doesn't bring him his half of the idol, before ordering them all to be killed anyway after he returns it while Karanis prepares to begin the Ankaaran invasion.
RIP Toriyama
And speaking of Pokemon, I've got a baddie of my own to discuss.
What's the work?
Pokémon 4Ever is the 4th main release in the movies of the anime series, and sees Ash and co. team up with a boy, Sammy, dropped out of time from 40 years in the past by the time-travelling Pokemon Celebi—who is being hunted by a particularly vicious Team Rocket member.
Now, in the film itself? The villain is a sad miss not because of anything to do with him—he was in fact listed for a couple years—but rather because the overall standard for the films and anime series is jacked with the likes of CMs Hunter J, Alva, Kodai, and Cyrus; as well as villains who aren't even CMs but are vile in their own right, like Dr. Yung, Lysandre...
...buuut (and I'm sure y'all know me well enough by now to know where this is going)...that's not a problem in the official, Scholastic-published novelization seres! The novelizations only ever covered about 9 of the films (up to Rise of Darkrai, oddly skipping Jirachi, Wish Maker as well), and never reached the likes of Kodai, Yung or Alva. So, with the much, much lowered standard as a result?
Who is the Iron Mask Marauder? What has he done?
- A "large, hulking man" whose laugh is "pure evil", the Iron Mask Marauder (nicknamed "Iron Mask" in the novel) is a Team Rocket agent who is on the hunt for Celebi. He is introduced threatening a Pokemon hunter who once pursued Celebi 40 years ago—when the hunter initially refuses to give any info, Iron Mask reveals his unique creation: the "Dark Ball", a Poke Ball that corrupts and enslaves a Pokemon to Iron Mask's will. The Marauder uses an enslaved Tyranitar to begin destroying the hunter's entire camp—notably, caged Pokemon are at said camp, and the novel notes that the hunter's entire camp is ablaze by the time Iron Mask is done—and threatens the hunter's life until he divulges the forest he once found Celebi at.
- Arriving in the forest that Celebi and thousands other Pokemon call home, Iron Mask pursues Celebi with a variety of enslaved Pokemon, trying to kill Ash and his friends for standing in his way. Eventually trapping Celebi, the Marauder tortures it to unconsciousness with electricity, then traps it in a Dark Ball; when Ash tries to steal the Ball from the Marauder to save Celebi, the villain literally crushes Ash's fingers with his boot heel until "the pain became so great that Ash fell unconscious."
- With Celebi enslaved to him, Iron Mask orders the Pokemon to unleash its power on the forest around it, cruelly forcing Celebi to destroy the very forest it has always protected. Countless Pokemon are forced to flee for their lives as Celebi rampages, Iron Mask gleefully coaxing on the destruction and revealing that he plans to take over Team Rocket and then the entire world with Celebi's destructive power.
- When Ash, Sammy and their friends try to save Celebi, Iron Mask tries to force Celebi to torture and kill them all with electricity, but our heroes are able to free Celebi from the power of the Dark Balls through their friendship. Celebi basically dies from the abuse it suffered, but the powerful Suicune revives it, and though Iron Mask swoops in and tries to kidnap Celebi once more to enslave, Ash stops him and the Marauder is cornered by the forest Pokemon, who restrain him until the authorities arrive to arrest the villain.
Mitigating features?
Not a one, he's just a power hungry asshole who even fellow Team Rocket agents shudder at the villainy of.
Heinousness?
As I said above, while the Marauder from the film was once listed for CM, the standard only increased as each film released, and it eventually got so high that he didn't quite stand out any longer. The film novelizations though? Lack that increased heinous standard. Iron Mask is ultimately the worst we get from them, because Kodai, Alva, Yung, Zero...none of them exist in the novels, so the Marauder's competition is way, way lessened here compared to the films proper.
And with the enslavement of Pokemon in an explicitly painful way, using Celebi to torture and try to kill Ash and his friends, decimating the forest and clearly endangering thousands of Pokemon for a power trip, he's definitely bad enough.
Final Verdict?
Yep!
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Novel!Iron Mask.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Book!IMM
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
for Iron Mask!
Jogo
(Bootleg)? Manhua Tarkin, Demon, Ein and Novelization!Masked Marauder
Edit: ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yoshiyuki
Edited by jlvs200s on Feb 9th 2024 at 6:38:29 PM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
I wanted to do this proposal for a while but it slipped from my mind. I already did another proposal from this same series, loosely, and this one will cover the human side of evil instead of the Mononoke side.
What is the Work?
"Bakeneko" is the final anthology story of the horror anime Ayakashi: Samurai Horror Tales and the canonical pilot for Mononoke.
Mononoke, of course, is a series about our resident hot bishonen Magnificent Bastard The Medicine Peddler, who has horrific nightmarish Surreal Horror adventures with bizarre puzzle battles in order to exorcise (and often ruthlessly so) "Mononoke", Yo-Kai created as a result of the fusion of negative emotions and ancient spirits, which require their shape, reason and truth to be known to be slain. The show has a signature Unmoving Plaid artstyle that sets it apart as incredibly unique.
As the pilot for the series, comes across a mansion owned by the wealthy Sakai family that descends into chaos as the young daughter of the family, Mao, mysteriously dies shortly before she was supposed to be wed. Unsurprisingly, this is the work of a Mononoke, specifically the "Bakeneko", or Goblin Cat. As time goes on, The Medicine Peddler eventually must pressure the Sakai family into revealing the horrific dark secret that has caused the entrance of this creature.
Who are Lord Yoshiyuki and Lord Yoshikuni?
Yoshiyuki, a pathetic elderly man in the present, is the cause behind the creation of the Bakeneko. A wealthy, privileged young man, he kidnapped a woman named Tamaki, and when confronted in an attempt to shatter the seal preventing the Bakeneko from being slayed, claims he treated her as a beloved willing concubine. In truth, this was far from the truth, and Yoshiyuki in fact imprisoned her in a small cage while regularly raping her. While he eventually grew uninterested in her, he would not be able to tolerate the social impact, and therefore kept her imprisoned against her will for decades, providing her the bare minimum food for survival as the rest of his family mistreated her. In her agony, Tamaki attempted to kill herself by starvation before finding the cat that would become the Bakeneko.
The only light in Tamaki's life was a small kitten, who she provided the meager food she was granted and who she wanted to have the freedom that she never could, which brings us to to Yoshikuni.
Lord Yoshikuni is the arrogant, drunkard son of Yoshiyuki, who has not matured whatsoever in the numerous years since the flashback. During the flashback, he murdered a mother cat and her 20 kittens in cold blood by using their live bodies as targeting practice while bragging about it, leaving the future Bakeneko as the sole traumatized survivor.
When Lord Yoshikuni attempted to rape Tamaki, Yoshiyuki was sent into a fit of rage for Tamaki "seducing" his son before brutally beating her to death and ordering her body to be dumped into a well. As Tamaki was killed, the rage the cat felt for her mistreatment and her suffering warped the cat into the Bakeneko.
Mitigating Factors?
Yoshiyuki is desperate to withdraw blame from his actions, and lies about the truth of what actually happened repeatedly, suggesting he knows what he's doing is wrong, but he never takes accountability or expresses clear remorse for his actions, and is killed by the Bakeneko for such. While he claims outrage at Tamaki for "seducing" his son, this is a result of her potentially ruining his reputation and purity as opposed to genuine care for the boy. Unlike the other family members that participated in Tamaki's torture, he does not express sadness at Mao's death unless I am forgetting something.
Yoshikuni is an arrogant, drunkard asshole that never has a single kind or remorseful moment whatsoever. When Mao dies, he shows no care for her death and instead merely taunts the rest of the family.
Heinous Standards?
I'm not considering the first two anthology entries in the series since they might as well be separate works, but even by those standards, I think they'd stand out, as despite Iemon also being a monster, he doesn't keep a woman in a torture cage for 25 years. People die frequently in this series, and the undoubtedly most heinous character, the Zue, killed hundreds, but there was no sexual abuse aspect to its actions and it has vastly superior resources due to its supernatural powers.
In comparison, Yoshiyuki and Yoshikuni are completely mundane in their powers in terms of evil, and still have unique crimes of kidnapping, serial rape and years-long sexual abuse, as well as animal abuse and infanticide for the latter.
Verdict?
Yeah these guys can go fuck themselves.
Edited by Orangutans on Feb 8th 2024 at 2:20:14 PM
Goku Black
Ein, Yoshiyuki and Iron mask.
Edited by miraculous on Feb 9th 2024 at 1:54:40 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Yoshiyuki.
Yoshikuni...kills cats? The only way he counts is if the cats are sapient and he knows it.
Yes to the Marauder. Honestly, if the one in the film also tries to destroy the forest, he may be worth a reevaluation.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Nah. Kodai and J have also done that. But with added horrible stuff.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Iron Mask and Yoshiyuki
Abstain on Yoshikuni
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Fair enough. I watched the first few seasons, then only really got back into the series during Sun & Moon. I think the only movie I've seen is the first.
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
Yoshiyuki
abstain on Yoshikuni
Absolute Rainbow
RIP Toriyama
In fairness, Kodai's destruction of a forest doesn't reeeally involve near the potential bodycount Marauder's does—the forest Kodai is threatening is almost purely on an ecological "the trees will die" scale, while the Marauder is explicitly out to just decimate an entire forest and every Pokemon inside it—buuuuut J absolutely does replicate the crime with a much less powerful Pokemon than Celebi, and even the Marauder's cruelty towards Celebi and the kids is surpassed by Kodai torturing an infant Pokemon in front of its mother, or Dr. Yung creating Mirage Pokemon just to cruelly experiment on and destroy them.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Goku Black
BTW how come Yung doesn't count? Don't think I've seen mirage?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yung was cut for heinous standard reasons years back.
EDIT: Here's where the discussion started.
Edited by KingofNightmares on Feb 9th 2024 at 2:56:08 AM
—signature not found—
Oh, shit, yeah, you're right![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts