Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, sure to him too then.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To video game Underminer, Fuudo, and Shikami
Man, I’m going to miss Lighty
In honor of Akira Toriyama
The Draftsman of Doom
Lies and Violence!
Yes to the Underminer, Fuudo, Shikami.
What's the work?
Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers (Boom! Studios) is a comic book adaptation of the titular heroes, who protect Earth from all kinds of murderous madmen. Though the comic itself is still set in season 2 of the Mighty Morphin era, there are also a few graphic novels in continuity that focus on future events. Of import for today? The Psycho Path, which features redeemed Big Bad Astronema wrestling with the guilt of creating her most monstrous servants: The Psycho Rangers.
Who is the Psycho Green Ranger?
Formerly Trek of Xybria, the future Psycho Green was once a member of the Supersonic Rangers (the Fivemen from Super Sentai). However, Green was always kept on the sidelines, supposedly because the Red Ranger was jealous of his strength. Green, stewing in resentment, was eventually contacted by the Evil Overlord Dark Specter, who told him lies that no one on the team truly cared for him. That little push was all that was needed to drive Green to Dark Specter's side, abandoning his old identity and murdering the rest of the Supersonic Rangers to prove his commitment to villainy.
Dark Specter proceeded to offer great power to the treacherous Green, who happily abandoned any concept of mercy or compassion to be twisted into "a creation of evil, a child of darkness"... the first of the Psycho Rangers. His first mission? Go to Earth, free Rita Repulsa from her imprisonment, and find the Green Power Coin she stole. The sheer power of the coin is considered by Dark Specter to be "more valuable than an entire galaxy of soldiers", furthering his never-ending quest to ensure that the entire universe "will die screaming."
Our good ol' head in a tube Zordon, knowing just how fucked the Earth will be if Rita gets loose, hastily assembles a team of Rangers to stop Psycho Green. This occurs during the 60's, BTW, so it's not the heroes we know and love, but instead a rag-tag band of inexperienced strangers. These rookie Rangers manage to stop Psycho Green at the cost of nearly half their number—Green brutally kills two, crushing one with a boulder and breaking another's helmet so he'll suffocate in the vacuum of space, before a third Ranger sacrifices himself to blow Green up. And even that only serves to trap him under the moon's surface for a few decades.
Fast-forward to after the events of In Space. Green wakes up to find the United Alliance of Evil disbanded; Dark Specter destroyed; and the dark lord's heir, Astronema, freed from her brainwashing, returning to her old identity of Karone to become a Ranger herself. However, Green soon learns of a little side-project of Astronema's: she created her own vat-grown Psycho Rangers, and though they were destroyed, their "essences" remain stored in data cards that can be used to bring them back. Green finds these cards, reprograms the Psychos to be loyal to their family—and, by extension, Green as their leader—and proceeds to resurrect them, intent on rebuilding Dark Specter's empire in a wave of bloodshed and conquest throughout the cosmos. But before they can do that, they need to retrieve the last member of their family.
Green has the Psychos lay siege to Karone's home planet of KO-35, murdering hundreds before finding and capturing her. Green hooks her up to a machine intended to brainwash her back into Astronema... only for Karone to calmly state that it's unnecessary. Thinking quickly and bluffing as hard as she can, Karone claims that she and Astronema have always been the same person, and that she was merely biding her time before she made her grand return. She proceeds to break out and beat Green into compliance, taking command of the Psychos.
Green's plan was to find Dark Specter's stash of superweapons, with which the Psychos could conquer to their hearts' content. Seeing how he still has their data cards, and the Psychos are still evil bastards, Karone can't exactly tell them to stop. So instead, she gradually teaches them neat things like empathy and mercy under the guise of teamwork and making them more effective. Their search for the weapons occurs with barely any deaths, much to Green's frustration. Still quite pissed at losing command, Green gets increasingly angered by Karone undercutting his orders—especially his attempts to kill off the Psychos the moment any of them get injured in a fight, as he can always just bring them back in tip-top condition with the cards—and begins repairing the brainwashing machine so that he can get "Astronema" back under control.
Long story short, the Power Rangers eventually track them down. Green resolves to kill them all, "fix" Karone, and wipe out the Psychos so can bring them back without Karone's "corruption." The Psychos, however, turn on him, locking him in their ship's brig as they escape to carve out a new path for themselves. Green is last seen madly muttering to himself:
Heinous enough?
The standard for the comic is pretty high. Lord Zedd has Rita conquering a thousand worlds with all the bloodshed that ensues, Zordon's former friend has become a genocidal colonizer feared throughout the universe, an evil alternate Tommy Oliver becomes god and destroys the multiverse, Dark Specter is entropy incarnate... shit's fucked, to put it lightly. (To get it out of the way now: Zedd and Rita have/will develop redeeming qualities; I'm looking into Zordon's former friend; Drakkon's already up; and Dark Specter is still an ongoing villain)
Psycho Green, on the other hand? By the time he becomes a proper Big Bad, he's been reduced to a space marauder with a single ship and a team of evil Rangers, but he still has aspirations of restoring Dark Specter's empire with all the devastation that comes with such a feat. The mere existence of the Psycho Rangers is explicitly stated to put the lives of millions at risk, and Green fully intends to lead them to as much conquest and horror as possible. For what little he has, he stands out perfectly fine.
Mitigating factors?
In theory, no. Psycho Green explicitly throws away any redeeming qualities when he joins Dark Specter.
However, there are two things that still need to be considered. The first? The Pink Supersonic Ranger, Star, whom Green was in love with. He considered her the only one who didn't think less of him, and even tried to get her to stay back on the mission wherein he killed them all. When goes anyway and subsequently dies, Green kneels by her corpse and, with what could be interpreted as sadness, says:
... And then he sees the Red Supersonic Ranger is just barely still alive and proceeds to go on a massive Motive Rant with a Slasher Smile, remarking:
I think that says plenty. Star "made her choice" to stay a Ranger, and Green subsequently made his own choice to hate them and all they stand for, lumping her in with them for rejecting him. Though he clearly looks somewhat saddened in the scenes leading up to their deaths, his expression is neutral enough in the "goodbye" scene and he's otherwise so gleeful to denounce them all that I think it's safe to say he quickly abandons his remaining love.
Second thing that needs to be discussed? The Psycho Rangers themselves. Green states that he programmed them to be loyal not to a leader, but to a family. Karone, however, accurately surmises that he thought that would make them loyal to him in turn. Green only loves them as the family he thinks he "deserves," and will otherwise kill and brainwash them all until they become obedient slaves. Tellingly, when he thinks he's accidentally killed Karone? Though he lets out a Big "NO!", his next response is:
No genuine love there. Green's interactions with Karone consist of giddily torturing her into becoming Astronema (even when she says she's already Astronema); getting pissed at her for not obeying his commands; and immediately after the above, trying to kill her brother.
Again: he only cares about them as the family he "deserves." Once Karone destroys the cards, preventing him from reprogramming them? His only thought is to kill them all.
Goku Black
Fuudo, Shikami and Psycho Green (was wondering about him)
Not the Eye
to Psycho Green
Mr.
To Underminer and Psycho Green!
I wll say yes to Psycho Green. I think his concept of "family" and "love" is twisted and self serving enough to not be mitigating, and while he doesn't seem to get up to much the intention is there.
Showtime!
to Fuudo, Shikami and Psycho Green
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
To the psycho ranger
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Green.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
In regards to the Underminer, I would like to point out that shouldn't we also address his actions in the similarly de-canonized The Incredibles (2009) comics of KaBOOM! Comics? The Underminer appears in one of the issues and the events of the game are mentioned to be canon. From what I remember, he just helps Xerek in his schemes and then Xerek gets rid of him.
for Psycho Green. The Power Ranger comics are pretty hardcore.
@ElJuaco: Depends on what Xerek schemes is and how involved he was. We don't need to list every thing a candidate did. Just the stuff that makes him stand out.
What the Underminer does in the comics is appearing the "Terror from Beneath" story arc, where he briefly allies with Dash to fight off alien invaders... only for that to turn out to be an extensive hypnosis dream. He properly appears working with the Unforgivables in a later story, where he controls a robot with the colors of the Incredibles supersuits and uses it to rampage through Metroville to paint them in a negative light. Then Xerek shoots him for outliving his usefulness.
Introduce a little anarchy
to Shikami and Psycho Green Ranger.
@NTG wait, I am allowed to bring a character up again in an EP if I have a new argument? Because I did bring up a new argument in the latest EP, I brought up a scene that may or may not convey Fitzgerald’s killed dozens.
~~Agentof Chaosreporting~~
Showtime!
Agent, a mod told you to cut it out, iirc. That goes beyond "but what if I have a better argument?"
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
psycho Green
King Kandy Kane
to the Underminer.
I've got good memories of that game and wondered if he qualified for the longest time, but it looks like he does.
(police siren)
RIP Toriyama
Sure to Psycho Green
Weird as it is, reserving Godzilla Minus One having just seen it. Actually some discussion to be had.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Introduce a little anarchy
Cut what out? I was told by a mod to not propose him again, which I’m not doing and won’t do anymore. I’m just trying to get to the bottom of the situation and understand how things work as I was told by a user that I was allowed to bring up a character again if I had a new argument and I got confused because I thought I did include one. What should I have done/said that would fall in place with “what if I have a better argument” rather than go beyond it? Look, I’m not trying to cause trouble or anything, I’m just trying to figure out specifically what I’m allowed to do with EP’s and what I’m not allowed to do.
Edited by AgentofChaos41 on Dec 4th 2023 at 7:11:16 AM
~~Agentof Chaosreporting~~
Lies and Violence!
I believe people are just tired of the incessant focus on the character, though I admit I haven't been following the discussion that strongly.
Generally yes, if you have new information or a new argument, you can repropose the character. That said, looking at your last effortpost for the character, you're relying way too much on speculation. We're not going to accept a "what if" theory as a new argument, one guy being reluctant to talk is in no way indicative that he's threatened to murder a bunch of people.
@ElJuaco: Not sure if that's noteworthy enough to be added. But if you think so, you should probably send a PM to Ravok, since he EPed the Underminer.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Go ahead. I'd initially reserved it, but I won't be able to see any time soon. The closest Landmark cinema currently showing it is eight hours away and my car is out of commission, and while it is coming to a cinema near where I live they only show one movie at a time and their showtime for it is "TBA".
His confirmed bodycount is among the highest, barring Hannya (who led the attack on your home town and nearly killed you - but later Hannya has an Alas, Poor Villain moment when you find out about her backstory...)
Anyway here's a playthrough, around 30:35
you see the aftermath of Shikami butchering a village which even makes you exclaim,
EDIT: Huh, top of the page. Looks weird out of context...
Edited by RobertTYL on Dec 4th 2023 at 8:14:27 PM