Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
The Moron
Okay, a minimum of 35 with some more attempted? Now I’m even more of a no. Again, there’s a guy who made 57 people drink bleach and he can’t even count.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
This is a rare case where I think 30+ is relatively rare enough, that using anthrax may be enough.
Though I wonder if Ramos could be relitigated with the new rules. I may do that if I feel like it.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Moron
We agreed he wasn’t worth it again after the rules were changed because he’s given no actual character and the only person we see actually doing his crimes is actually somebody else
Ultimate Moral Compass
I’m still leaning ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Chad. His body count is just way too small for the insanely high standards of Criminal Minds
Gentle Laborer
This is a show where other terrorists with zero access to Anthrax manage to do more damage than Chad. Izzy Rogers is responsible for bombings and multiple dozens of murders, she even likes to shoot her innocent victims in the chest to make them die slowly.
Flipping to a no given the above. ACW, this is the time to pause at the standard and that villain was quite thoroughly discussed. This franchise already required a lot of pruning.
Goku Black
Chad
- The Black Spider: The Devil makes a dark pact with the village in return for an unbaptized child. When farmer's wife Christine attempts to cheat him by having children baptized, the devil causes spiders to erupt from her face to kill the livestock. When the devil is repulsed, he turns Christine into a black spider to kill villagers en masse across six hundred years.
- The Head Man: Otto Krantz is the sadistic headman of Berlin who decapitates thousands with a delight to be seen performing his "act." After killing countless, Otto wants to practice on even less deserving victims and illegally bribes the local authorities to allow him access to a woman and her father to decapitate them for sport.
- Beleth Station: Rebecca Lawson is one of the most powerful people still remaining in Beleth Station. A fanatic of torture and abuse, Rebecca participates in the regime by running the Gauntlet where victims are forced to run, kill, and torture one another for Rebecca's pleasure with the "victors" simply taken back to her home so she can rape and abuse them before carving off their faces while they still live.
Not the Eye
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
43: Fair enough (though—and I know tone doesn't always come across well, so I'm saying this more amused than anything else—you don't have to remind me that it required pruning. I proposed a lot of said pruning ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
).
I had to look up previous discussion on Izzy; seems she was abused by her grandfather. Otherwise she'd be an easy keep.
Edited by ACW on Oct 28th 2023 at 1:51:25 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lies and Violence!
Yes to Rebecca, Arlecchino, Krantz, Robert, the mystery man, Wassali, the sniper, Beers, and satan. Not to Chad, Dru, and Bellwether. Turning in Beatrix a little early.
- Season 1: Empress Beatrix Vespasian-Orus, narcissistic despot of the realm of Imperium, is a genocidal maniac who devolves into truly depraved madness. Power-hungry even as a child, Beatrix imprisoned her sister and assassinated her father to take the throne, while perverting their realm's peaceful alliance with dragons to forcibly harvest their power for infinite energy. Beatrix subjects dragons to years of sadistic torture in order to extract their life force until they're "drained to dust," all while scheming to subjugate the mighty Source Dragons so that she can conquer the Merged Realms. Enabling and encouraging her subjects to hunt down every dragon in existence, Beatrix's cruelties are expounded when she responds to an escape attempt by spitefully trying to rip the life out of Riyu. Upon learning that the Ninja seek the Dragon Cores, the Empress—apathetic to their mission to stop the world-shattering Merge Quakes—steals the Cores to create a superweapon capable of annihilating anyone who defies her conquest, with not even Imperium's own citizens safe: when they rise up against her lies, Beatrix begins indiscriminately firing her weapon to create Merge Quakes throughout the kingdom, giddily cackling as she tries to kill everyone in her way and arrogantly refusing to believe the warnings that her actions will rend reality apart.
- Non-canon graphic novels by Greg Farshtey & Jolyon Yates:
- Destiny of Doom: Samukai, King of the Underworld and Lord Garmadon's initial right-hand, posthumously proves himself to be just as treacherous as ever. When Lord Garmadon decided to construct a doomsday weapon to wipe out all life in Ninjago should he ever be defeated, Samukai gladly aided in the machine's creation and chomped at the bit to activate it as soon as it was complete. Samukai was denied from immediately unleashing the weapon, but contented himself with changing the design of the machine's final piece in order to impede Garmadon should he ever wish to stop its apocalyptic rampage.
- Comet Crisis: "The One Who Is Many" is a shapeshifting alien that endlessly seeks chaos to entertain itself. Centuries ago, the creature wreaked havoc on another planet by using its powers to breed paranoia and hatred among the populace, turning friend against friend until a massive war erupted and shattered the world to pieces. The monster survived on a chunk of the planet that became the asteroid Delta V, where it waited for intelligent life to arrive for it to torment. When the Ninja are stranded on the asteroid, the One Who Is Many delights in manipulating them against one another, scheming to ensure they will stay as its playthings forever.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Oct 28th 2023 at 1:56:36 PM
Apologies for the wait. I thought I'd already done it and I recently had a family bereavement.
- The Bill: "Closing The Net": Peter Williams masquerades as a reformed pedophile whilst secretly running a horrific online child pornography site called Sunshine In Our Lives, where child rape is broadcast every day to over a hundred depraved members. After the police began to investigate, Williams sold out one of the websites members whilst doing everything in his power to keep the website up and running and assisted in the kidnapping of a ten year old boy, promising that the child would be raped on camera for the rings entertainment. After his arrest, Williams taunted the police at every opportunity, telling them that there was nothing they could do to prevent it.
Edited by Atlantis1930 on Oct 28th 2023 at 7:16:27 PM
Whilst I’ve been away, I saw a couple of films which may have some keepers. Here’s the first of them, from The Blood on Satan's Claw.
Sinister things are afoot in an 18th century English village. A local farmer, Ralph, has just uncovered the bones of a fiend which then go missing, and shortly after two local children are horrifically murdered followed by a rash of disappearances. It’s clear that something dark and evil has just been unleashed. The dark entity in question? The newly resurrected demon known only as Behemoth.
What has it done?
After Ralph unleashed it, Behemoth immediately got to work corrupting the town and its people. First visiting the house of The Judge, Behemoth drove Peter’s (The Judge’s son) new fiancee into insanity and later made Peter hallucinate that his own hand had become a claw and was attacking him, resulting in Peter chopping his own hand off, all done For the Evulz.
With it's whole goal being to rise up as a new god and create literal Hell on Earth, Behemoth realized it needed skins to fully regenerate. To that end, Behemoth created its own cult with the ironically named Angel Blake as its head to do Behemoth’s earthly bidding until it could do so itself. With that accomplished, Behemoth had Angel lure in “countless” numbers of children from all around, who were then flayed for their skins and either joined the cult or were brutally murdered and in some cases raped and tortured, with the amount of disappearances being remarked upon by all the terrified survivors of the village.
However, Behemoth soon met its match in The Judge. Returning from London, The Judge enlisted the help of an experienced witch hunter and galvanized the terrified locals to defeat the demon. After having its followers kidnap the luckless Ralph and just about to have him flayed and murdered, The Judge interrupted proceedings with his mob and Behemoth was slain, ending its reign of terror.
Heinous Standard?
Big Bad, sets it.
Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse?
Like hell. Whilst admittedly it doesn’t get much characterization we still get enough to determine its personality, and it's just as pure evil as you would expect, committing atrocities and sacrifices for no other reason than For the Evulz and planning to overthrow God and create literal hell on earth.
Conclusion?
Yes. Angel herself will be EP’d shortly as well.
Edited by Atlantis1930 on Oct 28th 2023 at 9:01:09 AM
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Behemoth
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Goku Black
behemoth
Yes to Behemoth but wasn't Angel already put up?
She isn't on the YMMV page. I'll just check the films.
EDIT: Yes she's there on the main film page. I'll just move her to the YMMV page if that's ok?
Edited by Atlantis1930 on Oct 28th 2023 at 8:50:50 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think before as it's The Man Behind the Man and the ultimate antagonist of the film.
Edited by Atlantis1930 on Oct 28th 2023 at 8:59:25 PM
I've got a few today, too....and arranged so I get a Halloween trio. A Dracula, a Gaiman, and a very special Gene Wolfe.
But first:
What's the work?
The Price of Fear was a radio series from none other than Vincent Price. The radio show is narrated by Price with a full cast. Price often adapted other horror stories from his own point of view, narrating them like they were his own adventures. It's as awesome as you might expect. This is from the episode Lot 132
In this episode, our man Vince who is of course a lover of fine art who does paintings and collects them for his art gallery, finds a rather intriguing painting for his gallery but finds it rather unnerves him. His friend Michael Emsley arrives seeking a present for his wife for their anniversary and decides the painting would be perfect for it. Vincent isn't sorry to see it go.
But then...something dark happens. Something very, very dark. Let's talk the villain:
Who is Nathaniel Jeremiah Blackwall?
AKA: "Killer Satan." Upon investigation, Vincent finds him in an encyclopedia of criminology. Blackwall was a monster who murdered his entire family. He poisoned his children and then brutally murdered his wife with a hatchet. Unfortunately, Blackwall's evil spirit lived on in his portrait and whenever someone buys it, Blackwall's evil soul takes over the father. He poisons the kids and hacks the wife to death to recreate his old murders.
This is the fate that befalls poor Michael Emsley, who murders his kids and murders his wife. Vincent realizes something MUST be wrong because Michael was such a kind man, and can't shake there's an issue. But upon visiting London to track the painting, he learns that the painting has been sold again from his gallery to a new client.
Rushing over, Vincent realizes Blackwall is again about to possess the father and recreate the murders. In the ensuing battle, Vincent saves the family, and realizing how to stop Blackwall, he destroys the portrait to banish Blackwall's dark soul for good.
Mitigating issues?
Nah, the guy is as evil as it gets. Just a family annihilator who keeps doing the same thing through his portrait. What we get from Blackwall through his possession is just a cruel misogynist. Thankfully, he's no match for Vincent Price.
Conclusion?
A yes.
Goku Black
blackwell
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Behemoth and Blackwall
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Not the Eye
to Blackwall
FWIW, the Wiki has 25 killed and 10+ attempted. And considering he's one of a very few with that MO, I'm fine with heinousness. It's motivation that makes me wary.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts