Magnificent Bastard Cleanup

Speaking of cuts... I've got my own unfortunate one to suggest since the guy is a great villain. Dalek Sec.

He gets outplayed by Caan and the other 2 skaro guys (Caan being an MB himself and ending on a defiant note against Davros of all people makes still makes him an easy keep.) If Sec did some backup plan that was revealed post mortem then I'd be alright but the human dalek concept was flawed from the very beginning due to the human nature of things. Sec's last moments are him chained up like an animal by one of the two where he leaps in front of one of the shots. It's a sad end for the guy but it's also not the most dignified. If Sec had returned with another scheme or whatnot then I'd be a bit more forgiving but as soon as Caan and the other 2 turn on him, he literally does nothing apart from taking the shot while Caan gets further with the scheme (before he terminated the human daleks in the end)

I think that was brought up when he was proposed. I’m a bit forgiving over him being chained up because it was him going out in a noble Heroic Sacrifice to save the Doctor. This act would earn the Doctor's full respect where he honored Sec. Plus he warned his own Daleks that their path was headed towards death and defeat, where he was ultimately proven correct, which is a point in his favor.

If his being outsmarted occurred entirely while he was still a villain, I’d vouch for the cut. But in this case it was post-Heel–Face Turn where he prioritized doing the right thing over his own personal safety.

That’s just how I personally feel. I won’t fight for him to stay up if the consensus is against me.

Edited by Snowy66 on Dec 16th 2023 at 6:50:51 AM

Found these in YMMV.The Life And Suffering Of Sir Brante:

• Magnificent Bastard:
  • Sir Brante can be played as one, using multiple parties for his own ends and always making the best out of any situation.
  • Felipe El Ferro can become this in his winning scenario. Not only does he concoct an elaborate and risky scheme that saves the whole realm from a devastating civil war, he also acts with determination and valor, never losing his cool even in the face of direst dangers. He can also prove to be very charismatic, securing Sir Brante's loyalty with nothing but his eloquence and sincerity. In the end he fully proves his Chessmaster capabilities and wins the main conflict of the game without fighting a single battle himself.

Troper who added them has never once posted on the thread, and I found nothing with searching. I've removed them.

Keep Dalek Sec.

Edited by jjjj2 on Dec 16th 2023 at 9:13:52 AM

I'm personally inclined to go for a cut for Dalek Sec. I understand and agree with Snowy's arguments, and he was right in his final pleas that the way would only lead to disaster for them which they refused to listen to.

But for me its the simple fact that the guy was honestly completely blindsided when the other Daleks turned on him. He was honestly convinced they would continue obeying him when he was endorsing undoing everything that made them Daleks, despite knowing that Daleks were literally programmed from existence into seeing all other forms of life as inferior.

For me that's just to big an oversight. There is prioritising the right thing over personal safety, and there is being played for a sap by your own former minions. Heck if it wasn't for the Doctor flipping the board, his plan would have failed miserably and there was nothing he could do about it.

Contesting Eggman's Lost World entry on MagnificentBastard.Sonic The Hedgehog. Unlike his Adventure and Forces incarnations, there's two things holding Eggman back from being an MB for me in Lost World. While his actual plan is genius, a.) he acts rather petty throughout the game, such as him arguing with Tails over having to shut down the Extractor and vowing To the Pain on the Deadly Six, and b.) he suffers a Humiliation Conga of undignified slapstick during the ending, with Sonic making him comically fall by snatching his jetpack's exhaust hose and comedically losing half of his mustache and ranting about it.

One moment of slapstick is not enough to disqualify a candidate, and those petty moments seem more mild if he's arguing with his Tails who happens to be his ally at the time and the latter just seems like a boast towards the main villains.

Keep that Eggman.

I'm going to need a lot more depth to those problems before I agree with a cut on their basis.

@MGD 107, very fair assessment. So I'll raise a few more points.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Daleks are compelled to obey the chain of command of Dalek superiors. Sec actually exploited this by ordering them not to kill the Doctor, leading to the famous "I. Obey." Caan had to pull an outright Loop Hole Abuse on Sec not being a Dalek anymore in order to convince the others to rebel, which is why Sec didn't anticipate it.

Even before the experiment, Sec always questioned the Dalek ideology of purity and supremacy, having asked why other races like humans were more successful at surviving, and their purity had brought about their race's downfall. At this point none of the Daleks questioned him over this.

There's also the fact that self-sacrifice was an ongoing theme for Sec, with him volunteering himself for the hybridisation experiment for the good of the Dalek race. This would continue on once he gained human emotions where he genuinely believed that giving emotions to the Daleks would be beneficial (also proven correct when Caan himself became a Mad Prophet).

Oh and the final thing that sells it for me. While it's true the Daleks turned on him, the tradeoff was that Sec used his charisma to sway the Doctor (the no. 1 Dalek hater in the universe) over to his side to help with the experiment, something no other Dalek had done before.

That's my two cents

Edited by Snowy66 on Dec 16th 2023 at 2:51:42 AM

Request a cut from Fan Works under the MB tree for Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg. I did raise this issue a long time ago but it was ignored by everyone.

• Emperor Pedro III is the emperor of Brazil, ascending to power after the way was cleared for his ascent to the throne by the Brazilian Integralists. Upon taking power he launches a massive purge of the Syndicalists and establishes the paramilitary Imperial Green Guards to suppress the far left and enforce religious fundamentalism, while indoctrinating the population through the distribution of Integralist propaganda and the creation of youth movements to indoctrinate the youth. Despite these measures however, Pedro III stands out as one of the more benevolent National Populist dictators in the setting, using his powers to weaken the powers of local governors and oligarchs in order to give the population as much individual rights and freedoms as possible; ruling through charisma and . Emperor Pedro is also noteworthy for his anti-racist policies, as he institutes laws protecting indigenous tribes and Afro-Brazilians from racial discrimination within Brazil in order to create a new cosmopolitian culture blending both Portuguese and Afro-Brazilian traditions.

While this wasn't the case when I effortposted him, and thus I cannot really be held accountable for overlooking this, later patches added an event where Pedro III can essentially greenlight his far-right prime minister and his cronies to carry hate crimes against Jews, or replace him with a more moderate prime minister that won't engage in antisemitic behavior. While this is up to the player to decide to what extent do they allow the Prime Minister to get away with this and it dosen't end in say death camps being erected all over Brazil, the fact that the character can be roleplayed as an antisemite leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth, especially with the current geopolitical climate(I am aware that antisemitism within the geopolitical context I am alluding to is a very complex and controversial discussion as to what extent is antisemitism weaponized for certain goals I will not describe due to ROCEJ, but that's here nor there and in general this entry leaves a very bad taste).

Edited by xie323 on Dec 18th 2023 at 5:23:20 AM

Sure, cut.

Sure to cutting that guy.

@Snowy Firstly, I appreciate the well thought arguments about Sec. To address your points.

Wouldn't that lean more in Caan's favour though? He's loop holing a problem that he's conditioned to?

They were on board if my memory serves me so that's true but they were intending on using the human daleks for conquering? The plan only changed when Sec merges with Dioagoras and intends on having the human daleks move to another planet to thrive. Caan and the other 2 still manage to get the hybrids under their control and to use them for battle (until Caan kills them all)

Caan didn't lose the ideology out of his own whims though. Wasn't it him being sent through into the time war itself that broke his mind and made him realise the Daleks and Davros were monsters?

My final statement on the matter, Sec has all the hallmarks for an MB but Caan in the end: Usurps him by loophole abusing his own programmed condition of command, has Sec chained like an animal by the other 2, kills all the human Daleks rendering the scheme for naught, pulls one of the biggest Manipulative Bastard instances in the entire show by fooling a reforged Dalek empire and Davros (who has the ingenuity as the Doctor.)

I suppose Pedro is a cut.

Cut Pedro.

Cut Pedro, and this is the problem with Player Characters counting.

I know it’s not an instant disqualification but it’s hard to do (like you can easily screw up really bad or do something really awful). Just like being a CM isn’t an instant disqualification but it is hard for them to count.

Edited by LarryT on Dec 21st 2023 at 3:09:59 AM

To be fair we have some examples of characters who have A Day in the Limelight or are playable for a short time, most notably Edelgard from Three Houses who IS playable in two routes. Being playable isn't an automatic disqualifier. Cut Pedro if it wasn't clear.

Edited by Klavice on Dec 21st 2023 at 9:05:49 AM

Cut Pedro, and while Sec is a great character, I'm sadly going to have to say cut him too. I just can't ignore that he put way too much stock in the Dalek chain of command keeping his subordinates loyal when he was trying to change Dalek nature, and the fact that his legacy was ultimately undone by a fail-safe he could have removed but didn't.

From what I'm hearing it does sound like Sec winds up playing well but comes in second to another MB and barring extreme circumstances and at the end of the day, this trope does entail being at least tied for smartest.

While I'll let people gather their thoughts of Sec. My additions for Soundwaves entry weren't added to the main Transformers page even though it's been removed from the drafts?

Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 21st 2023 at 4:29:04 PM

Yeah, I guess cut Sec.

Ah, you know what. I concede on Sec, he was always a close call but looks like now he's shifted to being a near-miss.

The points are correct that when it comes to duking it out with another MB like Caan, both sides need to each have some victories, whereas Caan was a firm victor without any defeats.

Sure to removing Sec.

Edited by Snowy66 on Dec 21st 2023 at 2:34:58 AM

Cut Pedro and I guess Sec

Cut Petro.

Cut Sec.

Cut Sec.

Minor rewrite for Lash from AOS; added an extra bit of cleverness and chopped the superfluous/technically incorrect end bit (he's already carried Daisy to safety when he's killed). Trimmed a few other awkward parts while I was at it.

• Original: Andrew Garner is a psychologist and an Inhuman researcher who becomes an Inhuman himself. Developing an urge to transform into the monstrous Lash and kill other Inhumans, he keeps up appearances with his colleagues at S.H.I.E.L.D. and evades detection from both them and the ATCU. Cornered by HYDRA assassins, he transforms into Lash and kills them, and sets the store ablaze to cover his tracks. Upon being discovered by May, he kidnaps her and takes her to an abandoned Culver University building. Cornered by S.H.I.E.L.D. and the ATCU, Lash is able to overpower them, only detained by May using her former relationship with Garner to talk him down. Finding himself in HYDRA's custody, he talks Simmons into setting him free to protect her, proceeding to slaughter both HYDRA's forces and the Inhumans being held in stasis. After spending months on the run, Garner hands himself into S.H.I.E.L.D. to take one last shot at taking out Hive, putting the abomination on the backfoot and setting Daisy free from his influence. Dying from being stabbed In the Back by Hellfire, Lash carries Daisy to safety in his final moments.

• New: Andrew Garner is a psychologist and an Inhuman researcher who becomes an Inhuman himself. Developing an urge to transform into the monstrous Lash and kill other Inhumans, he keeps up appearances with his colleagues at S.H.I.E.L.D. and evades detection from both them and the ATCU, using an Inhuman-detecting mole in the government to find his victims before silencing him when he's discovered. Cornered by HYDRA assassins, Garner transforms into Lash and kills them, setting the store ablaze to cover his tracks. Upon being discovered by his ex-wife May, Garner kidnaps her and overpowers S.H.I.E.L.D. and the ATCU's efforts to stop him, ultimately only being detained when May talks him down as a distraction. Finding himself in HYDRA's custody, Garner convinces Simmons to set him free to protect her, proceeding to slaughter both HYDRA's forces and the Inhumans they're holding in stasis. After spending months on the run, Garner hands himself into S.H.I.E.L.D. to be used as one last shot at taking out Hive, putting the abomination on the backfoot and setting Daisy free from his influence in his final moments.