Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
RIP Toriyama
Got a cut to process real quick:
- The Bourne Conspiracy:
- "Eliminate Devandelin": Devandelin is a war criminal who was to be tried by the UN, but staged a breakout, smugly grinning after watching the cops holding him get gunned down. Escaping into an airport, Devandelin and his men slaughter their way through the building, killing cops and civilians alike. When he realizes Bourne is chasing him, Devandelin sends waves and waves of his own men to the slaughter as a distraction, even his second-in-command, not confronting Bourne until all his men are dead.
- "Disarm Renard": Khalid Azar is a wealthy Moroccan Nationalist who funds and arms terrorist cells in his nation. Planning to steal a Dirty Bomb from Charles Renard instead of buying it, Azar sends an assassin to clear out as many of Renard's guards as he can. When the time came, he personally executed Renard, and made off with the bomb, inciting a gunfight to breakout, killing Renard's guards, his own men, and any of the partygoers caught in the crossfire.
So, firstly? These were done by a ban evader who managed to slip them in before they were found out. So I'm not even sure if they should be listed...but even then? Devandelin absolutely does not count. The "slaughter" is way overhyped, and there is no visible sign of genuinely wounded or killed civilians. Devandelin's men kill a handful of cops, try to kill Bourne, and there's some civilians cowering during the firefights... that's about it. Devandelin "throwing his men's lives away" is not played as anything but normal video game minions coming at the player, so yeah, he does not hit by any stretch.
Azar is mostly fine, but I think he should be rewritten so as to avoid letting any work done by a ban evader stay up. Thoughts?
Edited by Ravok on Feb 9th 2023 at 4:16:49 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Slice them if they were done by a ban evader IMO or someone can spruce up Azar's writeup.
Also speaking of ban evaders, shouldn't we get rid of the Utter Koala sock candidates? They manange to get a fair few up.
Edited by WetFlannels on Feb 9th 2023 at 12:19:24 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Showtime!
Yeah, cut the Bourne guys
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
These are the ones I'm referring to for reference
- Utter Koala:
- as JHT: The Thug (Hard Like a Criminal), Mr. Carruthers (The Clown at Midnight)
- as Jerrod1204: The Joker
- as color2wheel: Dr. Faustus, Cleetus, Mammoth
- as Spooky2Cute: The Queen (Junji Ito's Snow White), Devandelin, Khalid Azar
- as YearOfTheRabbit: King Snake'''
Edited by WetFlannels on Feb 9th 2023 at 12:29:02 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
Cut both of those. Don't mind Azar getting his own re-ep though.
Edit: ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Utter Koala's ones they did as themselves can stay. We don't cut examples prior to someone getting bounced.
Edited by miraculous on Feb 9th 2023 at 4:23:23 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Huh I thought I edited the copied post to remove the originals. Wb the Sock proposals?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
RIP Toriyama
I can verify that Azar counts and can easily do a rewrite, but if we think a full re-effortpost is better, I'll do that.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
I think the procedure is to cut any ban evader entries.
I think a re-EP is in order, with a proper proposal.
NGL, every one of those examples in this post I think need to be cut, too. All of them were done under one of Koala's sock accounts. We left them up the first few times but began chopping them later on; I think we need to apply the standard consistently and just wipe all those characters until we can get someone to verify they each actually qualify.
I'm not sure if "cut the entry if it was made a ban evader" is an actual rule we abide by in any form, but my overall issue is we don't have the confidence those entries actually qualify given who the original proposer was.
Edited by Scraggle on Feb 9th 2023 at 5:49:26 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
It's a rule, don't worry. More on this thread.
RIP Toriyama
I'm all for cutting every last one of the examples and letting folks propose any they feel count at their leisure. I'll do Azar on the proposal thread soon enough.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
There's another guy who I think used sock accounts? Correct me if I'm wrong obviously.
Octomus I can fully vouch for since I was the one who did his rewrite that was recently added onto the page but if we're going by the rules, I guess they'll have to be cut until someone re E Ps them? I can do Octomus tho over the weekend if folks are alright with that.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The Moron
I can take UK's Joker if nobody minds - I'm always down for more of the clown!
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Well shit, I guess all of their candidates are rendered null then? These are the Utter Koala posts themselves.
- as Utter Koala: Froid, Charles Weatherly, Brigit Stark, Marcus Black, Dr. Merlot, Adam Rook/Lazarus
I mean, if those were from Koala's OG account, I don't think we need to remove those, since he wasn't a ban evader at that point.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Twiddler just said that Utter Koala was also a ban evader? As in that wasn't their original account?
Edited by WetFlannels on Feb 9th 2023 at 1:42:36 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The Moron
Wait, ~Twiddler - the UtterKoala account was this person already ban evading? Cause that changes everything and I'm not exaggerating - we've been operating under the assumption that the UK account was the OG and so we never cut their candidates, but if they were already ban evading by that point then their candidates join the pile.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 9th 2023 at 8:46:30 AM
The Ultimate Lifeform
Okay, what's going on, and what am I missing?
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
The Moron
Long story short, there are a lot of candidates that were approved by a serial ban evader under different account names, and per site policy, any contributions by a ban evader are cut on sight. We're essentially just looking at their list and splitting the pie of who takes what, but we're quickly confirming which account was actually the OG and which was them already ban evading
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 9th 2023 at 8:45:03 AM
The Ultimate Lifeform
I see... I'm gonna assume that why they were banned is not relevant to the discussion as well as private, but how many posts has this serial ban evader tainted?
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Yes, UtterKoala was bounced in 2018 for being a sock of 1204UFP, who was bounced the year before that.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
While the UK discussion is happening, can I get some feedback for this ban evader as well?
Thanks for the clarification Twiddler!
@Forgo It's been a lot, I've only been on the threads since late 2021 and they've popped up at least 6 times.
Edited by WetFlannels on Feb 9th 2023 at 1:48:33 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The Moron
Got it - sorry to bother you with a ping, but just wanted to be sure I was understanding correctly. Thanks!
Alright, that means the candidates under the UK account are also up for grabs. I'll gladly snatch up his Joker and Dr. Merlot (though I'm obviously happy to split), and the rest are fair game for anyone to snag.
I don't know if that necessarily means the person was ban-evading - people are allowed to create new accounts in certain circumstances. Our own Snoketrope used to be called Kylotrope, for example. We'd need confirmation that they actually ban evaded.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 9th 2023 at 8:48:19 AM
If we're looking at specific versions:
Tamamo no Mae's first known appearance in an otogizōshi prose narrative called Tamamo no Mae monogatari, written in around 1470, where she's an evil fox-spirit who poses as a beautiful young woman during the late Heian Period, seduces the retired emperor Toba into making her his concubine, and tries to assassinate him before being exposed by an onmyōji. She flees, but is hunted down and killed after 108 days by the archers Miura-no-suke and Kazusa-no-suke, with her corpse being brought back to the Imperial palace and found to contain divine treasures.
Tamamo no sōshi, an otogizōshi was written in 1653 and alters the ending so that Tamamo's corpse is petrified into the Sesshōseki (Killing Stone), which is haunted by her onryō (vengeful spirit), who kills anyone and anything that gets too close. Some time later, a Buddhist monk named Genno comes across her, and she repents her sins, converts to Buddhism, and is exorcized. This version was adapted into the noh theatre play Sesshōseki — written in around 1869.
Ito guruma kyūbi no kitsune, written in 1808, ignores the pro-Buddhist propaganda ending of Tamamo no sōshi and has Tamamo's still-evil ghost join forces with the old hag from Adachi ga hara to seek revenge on Miura-no-suke's descendants.
By the late Edo period, as elucidated by Hokusai's adaptation, Tamamo-no-Mae had come to be composited with the Chinese fox-spirits Daji and Bao-Si, and the Hindu legend of Prince Kalmashapada, (aka Prince Hanzoku in Japan). In this version she starts out in China as Daji, escapes the downfall of the Shang dynasty and goes to India to seduce Prince Kalmashapada and turn him into a cannibalistic tyrant, goes back to China as Bao-Si in 780 BCE, and eventually makes her way to Japan where her reign of terror is ended and her body petrified into the Killing Stone. However, I do not know whether Hokusai's version kept the Buddhist conversion arc or not.
Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 14th 2023 at 4:40:47 AM