Soft Split Cleanup

This one's been bothering me for a while. Capital Letters Are Magic is soft-split by concept, in a format that encourages zces and violates rules on pot holing. Permission to rewrite and fold the first sections into the normal examples part?

Edited by naturalironist on Jun 3rd 2021 at 6:34:49 AM

I think that might not be a bad idea...

I'm wondering if the odd bits were originally intended for "common" capitalized terms, that get mileage across multiple works/continuities?

Perhaps. But the way they are formatted defeats that, as it's one term per work. Some of the things on the list are tropes, so that could be moved to the description perhaps? Although nearly all trope titles on this website already use Capital Letters Are Magic, not sure why only some are listed there...

As for Teacher/Student Romance I think the split makes perfect sense, student crush on teacher, teacher crush on student, and actual relationship.

Teacher/Student Romance is definitely acting as an on-page hard split. Most wicks are either Hot for Teacher or Hot for Student, so the differentiation is also happening on work pages. Other than the differences in power dynamic, are there narrative differences that would lead to treating these as separate tropes? If not, I'd say leave it as is.

Real-Time Fandub splits "Real-Time Fandub" and "The dubs themselves" into separate folders, which I don't quite get. I think the former folder is troping the dub in general as opposed to specific dubs, or maybe it's troping the actors themselves, but either way it feels unnecessary (and may encourage real-life troping). I remember it previously just being split between RTF and RTF Games and I think that's a better system.

A fair number of works pages are soft-split into "the work in general" and "particular installments of the work". Don't really underknow what's supposed to go in each section, honestly, especially in cases like Deltarune where only one installment has even been released so far

That's the one kind of soft split that actually makes sense to me. It's like having an individual page for each installment and for the franchise as a whole, but for cases where nobody got around to making a page for each. The "general" folder would be for tropes about the setting, overall plot arc, and recurring characters (if there is no characters page), whereas the individual folders are for things that only happen in a specific installment. This is helpful for the type of work where viewers might be consuming works individually without viewing every installment in chronological order.

That said, since there is only one installment of Deltarune out I don't think the soft split makes sense, as it would be more difficult to tell what tropes go where.

Curse Cut Short has been hard-split into seven subpages. I'm not sure these would make viable subtropes, and I also think it makes better sense for any trope to be split by medium.

WhatCouldHaveBeen.Live Action Films, though not technically a soft-split page, has a weird way of sorting examples where the on-page examples are only for certain popular franchises, with most of the rest relegated to an "Unsorted Film" subpage.

Our Presidents Are Different, whose example section is not soft-split but contains lots of category labels, seems like a good candidate for hard-splitting into separate tropes. I think some of them need not be limited to national leaders; for instance, "President Playboy" could accumulate more examples if it were something like Playboy Politician.

Edited by Prfnoff on Jun 5th 2021 at 9:27:22 AM

Several of the character pages about individual characters in My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic are folderized based on attributes ^note (Characterization and Background, Appearance, Abilities, Relationships, Other) rather than alphabetically. The pages in question are all characters listed in the Mane Cast ^note Mane Six, Spike, Starlight Glimmer, plus Discord. Last time I asked this thread about a similar situation on a work page, it was recommended to alphabetize as per the norm for pages.

~Adept I just re-read some of what you said about Teacher/Student Romance. Do you mean that you have found examples where the same relationship was listed under more than one folder on the page? If so, that is mis-use. If both parties have feelings, it should be in the "Mutual Attraction" folder.

The good news is that I just ran an automated check of the various redirect wicks, and none of the HotFor* wicks overlap with the main TsR wicks. Only 20 pages wick both HfT and HfS, so not a lot of that type of misuse out in the wild, either.

Note that Work sub-pages are not necessarily the same as the main work pages. I was going to punt this one over to the Cleanup Is Magic thread, but I see that you've already discovered it.

CCS and OPAD added to the sandbox. I think that they'll both need a fair bit of discussion. OPAD has a failed TRS in it's history that decided to delegate taking care of those very concerns to a cleanup thread... back in 2013! I guess we're elected?

The What Could Have Been split was, I think, based on the old page-size limit.

• I'd be okay with merging it back in, but the total page would be about 370k. Do we know if that would cause issues?
• If we do merge it, I'd like to turn the Franchise-folders into proper bullet points, with their contents as sub-bullets. Folderize alphabetically to make the page a little easier to read.
• If the total page is too big, split it on A-M,N-Z

Thoughts? Other teams that might have an opinion here? Maybe bump to ATT? (I'm not sure if it really counts as a Soft-Split, but not sure where else to ask.)

Edited by underCoverSailsman on Jun 6th 2021 at 3:53:53 AM

Separate post, to try to keep some things a little separate, and try to keep us up to date on what we're doing:

• Sandbox.Hey The Wick Check Fainted has reached 80 wicks, and we've got a little snag: So far, 47 of the wicks (58%!) should be Faint in Shock. This, combined with ZCE (17 wicks or 21%) is making it difficult to tell what other usage patterns might be there. I was hoping not to have to do this, but it looks like the only way forward is to do an actual wick clean now, and then see what is left before considering further steps on Fainting. Warjay suggested running it as it's own thread. Sound like a plan to everyone, or should we just run the cleanup from here?
• Returning to one of the first tropes mentioned on this thread: Some of the Subpages on Big Eater have splits for Large, Skinny, and Medium-size characters. We were mostly convinced that this split is useless. Is there any objection to me setting up a sandbox so that we can start working through those pages?

Sorry for being so inactive on this thread (also didn’t think it would be this popular) buut

I also think we should make a thread (cleanup thread?) for Fainting.

I also agree that we should make a sandbox to undo the split on Big Eater.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 6th 2021 at 2:59:10 PM

I've been wondering about Panthera Awesome. Currently it's split by species. Is that really necessary?

Wow 14 way split. Yeah that’s pretty unnecessary. I don’t think matter too much what type of cat it is. The trope is just big cats are badass and awesome.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 7th 2021 at 3:09:50 PM

() Agreed. However, The Analysis/ page covers all of these sub-types in detail. Should that page also get a bit of a cleanup, or possible be re-worked as Useful Notes? I don't think that we want to ditch the info completely, but we are not wikipedia...

Fainting cleanup thread is now up. Question: What should we be doing with ZCE at this point? Just comment out for now?

Sandbox.Big Eater is up. A quick scan shows a lot more "Thin" characters than other body types - Are we missing a Big Eater Tiny Body contrast trope?

Edited by underCoverSailsman on Jun 7th 2021 at 11:43:20 AM

There should be such a trope.

Featherweight Glutton or Emaciated Glutton could also be trope names.

This thread helps with work pages too, right? Dumb Ways To Die was, until I split it a few moments ago, soft-split into the original PSAs and the video game based on them. I'm only like, 30% awake right now, but I know it at least needs re-crosswicking and indexing.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Jun 8th 2021 at 7:44:37 AM

I'm not sure why "Fat Big Eater" and "Thin Big Eater" needs to be their own tropes.

I don’t see the point in splitting Big Eater either. What makes “fat Big Eater” and “skinny Big Eater” distinct enough that it’s worth splitting? Either way, though, I do think the soft-splitting on the subpages should go.

Edited by jandn2014 on Jun 9th 2021 at 6:33:34 AM

I think the fat/skinny soft split of Big Eater should be kept.

Why? I'm curious, because if the reason is good it might be able to sway us.

I'm on the "no split" side personally.

Human Mom Non Human Dad has a whole section for inversions, but these are just gender inversions, the general idea behind the trope looks to be the same.

I said this in Trope Talk, but I think that the concept of it - hybrid is raised among only one of their parent species - is salvageable. Maybe there could be a Hybrid Reveal trope, as well.

I've noticed that some - but not all - video game tropes have separate folders for eastern and western RP Gs, which caused me to become confused when I wanted to add the Spanish, but inspired by a Japanese franchise, Temtem to Anti-Debuff. I put it in the eastern folder for now, but someone on Ask the Tropers told me to bring it up here.