Needs Help (New Crowner 11 May 2021): Mister X And Mister Y

The two leading suggestions are not mutually exclusive, right? We can create Bantering Baddie Buddies (combining Those Two Bad Guys and Mister X And Mister Y), then cut Mister X And Mister Y (cutting it is better than turning it into a redirect, to prevent it getting misused for the naming pattern).

Wait a second, the crowner says TRS decided to cut Those Two Bad Guys, but TRS actually decided to rename that trope (there's an active new names crowner for it). So it doesn't strike me as productive that we're deciding here to create a new trope for the same concept.

There was another crowner. It got Bibble Bobble'd though so you'll have to check the history to see what the options were.

For brevity though: Yes. Those Two Bad Guys is being cut. A new trope is being formed out of the ashes. As in, it's getting redefined and renamed, meaning the OG trope no longer exists.

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 4th 2021 at 5:00:40 AM

Bumbling Henchmen Duo is not just Those Two Bad Guys renamed; it's a different trope, which Those Two Bad Guys was often misused for. This crowner is about the original idea for Those Two Bad Guys, two bantering villains.

Most examples of Those Two Bad Guys are still either ZCE or just Those Two Guys who happen to be evil; I've been persistently cleaning those up, but with over a thousand wicks, it goes really slowly.

Ok, so the question then is, does the reformed-and-renamed version of Those Two Bad Guys also cover what's currently this trope?

(because this trope was a duplicate of the original TTBG, that's quite plausible)

The answer to that is a very clear no.

The "reformed-and-renamed" Those Two Bad Guys is called Bumbling Henchmen Duo, which covers an inseparable pair of antagonists who also provide some comedy due to their incompetence (hence "bumbling"). The original definition of Those Two Bad Guys (and the trope we are discussing now) is also an inseparable pair of antagonists who provide some comedy, but unlike Bumbling Henchmen Duo, they are typically dangerously competent, and their comedy comes from the witty banter they engage in while doing heinous crimes. They are typically Faux Affably Evil and Wicked Cultured, and usually address each other very formally as "Mister" (hence the name Mister X And Mister Y).

Examples of this latter trope is Jules and Vincent, Croup and Vandemar, Wint and Kidd, Pin and Tulip. They are all too competent to qualify for Bumbling Henchmen Duo.

I'm not sure the Dawn of War example actually fits the trope: It seems to be more related to the Wooden Ships and Iron Men trope of the ship officers calling their subordinates "Mr X".

It probably doesn't, which is an additional reason why this trope needs a new name.

"Time to call" bump?

Yeah, I think it's safe to call in favor of "Create a new page for the "bantering hired goons" concept currently covered by Mister X And Mister Y and Those Two Bad Guys."

What should we call it? Bantering Baddie Buddies was a popular suggestion, but I'm not sure if it conveys the "hired guns" idea. Bantering Hitman Duo is less witty, but perhaps more clear?

Bantering Baddie Buddies sounds pretty catchy, but I wonder if it might get confused with Bumbling Henchmen Duo; that said, that might not be a big deal since the two concepts are related. We previously renamed Fun In The Funeral to Cheerful Funeral because it originally sounded too similar to The "Fun" in "Funeral" and lacked wicks as a result.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 25th 2021 at 12:18:16 PM

I think Bantering Baddie Buddies does sound significantly different from Bumbling Henchmen Duo. If it was Bantering Henchmen Duo, that would be very confusing though, I agree.

The key difference here is "Bantering" vs "Bumbling" though - one provides humor with through witty conversation, the other though comical incompetence and slapstick.

That's a good point, and I think Bantering Baddie Buddies is now my preferred name after thinking about it a bit more (I hadn't been awake for very long when I made my previous post).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 26th 2021 at 12:43:08 PM

Where'd we leave this one? Are we supposed to TLP BBB?

Either TLP, or just make a Sandbox. Not sure which is preferable.

EDIT: Naturalironist created Sandbox.Bantering Baddie Buddies. Looks good, but it needs examples.

Edited by Snicka on Apr 25th 2021 at 3:54:32 PM

Well, should we start wick-cleaning? If we find examples, we can move them there. Or we can go to TLP.

Ideally we would make Mister X And Mister Y a disambig between Bantering Baddie Buddies and Overly Polite Pals. I suppose it's ok to start dewicking; should be pretty fast.

Are we disambiging? Was there another crowner I forgot about, because the current doesn't say anything about that.

Does the "cut" option have consensus on the crowner? I can't tell.

Nope, the only option that has consensus is the first one.

But "keep & rewrite to reflect usage" was also downvoted? So does that mean people want to keep the page with its extremely bare-bones description?

You got me there.

Seems to me like this is yet another instance of a poorly written crowner.