Misused (first Alt-Names crowner 21 Feb 2021): Crazy Awesome

Since the TLP draft was just made, let me make it clear that if the people who voted for the draft to exist don't help work on it, it will suffer and fail to launch. That's not a threat; it's a fact. The TLP doesn't do well when the TRS sends drafts their way and refuses to work on them afterward, so please stick around if you want it to work.

I decided to chime in over there to move things along.

Also, the original Alternative Titles crowner is still unlocked.

Edited by Brainulator9 on May 26th 2020 at 10:08:59 AM

And... It's launched! Now we just need to clean up Crazy Awesome and Essential Madness

Shouldn't the "Created per Crazy Awesome TRS thread" notice at the top of the page be removed? And the "Quotes" folder moved to Quotes.Success Through Insanity?

Yes. I got them both.

Success Through Insanity still needs crosswicking, but Essential Madness has been dewicked. We should just need to check if any of the on-page Essential Madness examples can be moved over, then cut the Essential Madness page, right?

Edited by Discar on May 29th 2020 at 4:15:28 AM

Should i cutlist Crazy Awesome?

EDIT: How do i make a page a redirect?

Thanks, Berry.

Edited by GeneralGigan817 on May 30th 2020 at 1:45:21 PM

To create a redirect, replace the contents with [[redirect:<page destination>]]

For this instance, we could replace Crazy Awesome's contents with [[redirect:SuccessThroughInsanity]].

Is it too late to suggest renaming Crazy Awesome to say, Wacky Awesome or Outrageous Awesome or Zany Awesome, and cleaning up misuse?

Too late, Crazy Awesome is no more.

That, and those suggestions would encourage "so crazy, it's awesome" misuse more than the name Crazy Awesome did, especially since none of those adjectives mean "mentally unwell".

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 30th 2020 at 1:47:02 PM

The Crazy Awesome description never implied that it's about mental unwellness.

The phrase "completely nuts" is being used in the sense of mental health (a la the word "nutcase"), not in the sense of being ludicrous. Ditto for the references to Lunatic Loophole and Power Born of Madness.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 30th 2020 at 2:04:32 PM

It talks about "crazy" in terms of quirkiness, repeatedly comparing it to Cloudcuckoolander and Bunny-Ears Lawyer, neither of which is defined as being mentally unwell. It explicitly states that the difference between Crazy Awesome and the Bunny-Ears Lawyer is in how their quirks relate to their effectiveness. Also "If they're just crazy, they're a Cloudcuckoolander" implies that "crazy" is not meant in the mentally unwell sense, since Cloudcuckoolander is not defined as that.

ETA: Looking at the page in wayback machine, it describes a Crazy Awesome character as being "eccentric, idiosyncratic, or just has his own way of doing things". And it goes on to describe a different scenario between a Bunny-Ears Lawyer and a Crazy Awesome character.

I believe defining the "crazy" in Crazy Awesome as mentally unwell is narrowing the description to something that was never actually part of the intent, like that dispute some months back about whether Ho Yay is necessarily sexual, since the Ho supposedly stands for "homoeroticism".

Edited by Twiddler on May 30th 2020 at 12:25:07 PM

Even if we did want to rename it, we just can't anymore, the trope is being cut and replaced with a better one.

And if that decision was based on a misunderstanding about what Crazy Awesome actually is? (Note the ETA ) A character being perceived as awesome because of Success Through Insanity is not synonymous with Crazy Awesome.

On a related note, Success Through Insanity states

If the trope is meant to describe characters who are actually mentally unwell, these lines are actively misleading. (Not sure about the line "When all of humanity is composed of Heroic Madmen, that's Humanity Is Insane." because I can't tell from the description of Humanity Is Insane whether it is meant to be about literal insanity.)

Wait, did we ever vote to outright cut Crazy Awesome?

It's being merged with Essential Madness, essentially cutting the trope through that process.

Shame, because I thought "Crazy And Awesome" might've been a good title for the "loved by the audience because they're crazy" misuse.

The decision to merge with Essential Madness was based on interpreting the "Crazy" as literal insanity.

Essential Madness was about literal insanity.

(But still mixed up literal and figurative craziness in the description, such as through the comparisons to Crazy-Prepared.)

Speaking of Crazy-Prepared, that's another case where "Crazy" is not meant in the mental health sense.

To sum up again, the entire discussion leading up to the vote to merge Crazy Awesome with Essential Madness was erroneously based on the assumption that the "Crazy" in Crazy Awesome was meant in the literal, mental health sense.

(I've already addressed the "better one" thing by this point, so focusing on the rest)

It's not like we literally can't. The Crazy Awesome page history is still there, as are the vast majority of the wicks. According to this post made just after the crowner was called, Crazy Awesome had 4749 wicks. Now, it has 4722. If the only issue is that backtracking on a TRS decision is unprecedented (is it? I don't know), I'm not sure you could even call that an issue.

So... the "Crazy" in Crazy Awesome doesn't mean literal insanity? I was under the impression that it did.

It's pretty ambiguous tbh. Crazy can mean legit insanity or just a casual "that's nuts!", and there's evidence to support both interpretations.

Hence why we changed the damn thing to begin with.

Various Crazy Awesome subpages were submitted to the cut list with the reason that it was being merged with Essential Madness, which seems incomplete in looking at the crowner, as actual viable examples are now under Success Through Insanity. Did someone misunderstand the conclusion?

Edited by nombretomado on Jun 7th 2020 at 1:11:53 AM

I misremembered the name. Will do so correctly.