I also agree that Toffee does not fit the Hate Sink trope.

Aww I was just about to talk about that.

Here's the actual entry.

• Hate Sink: Toffee stands out as the most selfish, vile, and sociopathic of all the villains in this series. He caused the continued conflict between mewnis and monsters with his racist motivated murder of Moon's mother, who wanted peace and was about to give the monsters the rights they desired. Worse of all, "Meteora's Lesson" proved he never cared about monsters, with him bullying a Rasticore into getting his arm ripped off, and it’s revealed even correct hatred of magic stems from a personal attack rather then any of his people suffering at its hands.

Yeah Tofee dosent count. Evil Is Cool and is a Magnificent Bastard for Damn good reason.

Edited by Kylotrope on May 19th 2019 at 3:57:36 AM

Toffee is too much of Evil Is Cool and Love to Hate to count IMO.

I want to personally contest Nappa's entry on HateSink.Dragon Ball

• Nappa is even worse than Raditz — more of a brute, more of a bully, and while not a coward, he compensates by being a sadistic Hero Killer and a Sore Loser. Goku crippling him for life, prompting Vegeta to kill him for being dead weight, was more than a fitting end for him.

True he is sadistic Hero Killer brute but he shows some redeeming qualities (suggested to wish Raditz back and got shocked when Vegeta kills a Saibaman) and the way Vegeta callously kills him is also treated a bit tragically, with the Z-Fighters being shocked at the sight. Even then, there is absolutely no way that he's worse than Raditz, who I personally agreed to be a Hate Sink in the anime/manga proper.

I have no objections removing the entry regarding Nappa.

This trope can be played with, you know. But cut it for now, and if someone wants to effortpost him later, that's their decision.

Yeah I'd say cut Nappa. He is frequently shown to be the Lesser of Two Evils between him and Vegeta. Being a Hero Killer is as natural as breathing in DBZ. Nothing that would make him personally stand out.

Edited by username2527 on May 20th 2019 at 9:30:16 AM

In that case, it's unlikely he will be effortposted.

Here's my Matt Engarde writeup...

• Hate Sink: Matt Engarde is the culprit of Justice for All Case 4. While he originally appears to be a ditzy Surfer Dude type actor, he's clearly far more intelligent than he lets on. For one, he ordered the murder of Juan Corrida, and the kidnapping and starving of Phoenix's assistant Maya Fey. Not only that, but he forces Phoenix to choose between a young woman's life or Maya's, then to play dirty and accuse said woman who's got extremely low self esteem of murder until she's pleading for her life. He also caused said woman's mentor to hang herself, by telling Juan Corrida that he's dating his ex, which caused Juan to be disgusted because of his male pride of not wanting to date his rival's "leftovers". It's extremely satisfying to see the creep plead for his life then utterly break down slashing his face while chanting guilty. Overall, he is one of, if not the most vile, of Phoenix's clients, and no one was sad to see him hauled off to jail.

I might do Retinz writeup as well.

Edited by Klavice on May 23rd 2019 at 1:38:52 AM

Looking good.

Say, has there been a consensus regarding Eyeball of Steven Universe? I want to settle that case down.

What's the tally? I think if it has 3 more approvals than dismissals, it is approved.

There were less people there, and the two I was Talking with didn't Quite downvote her but said they didn't think she counted. I'll resend my Orignal EP so we could settle this.

Whats the work?

Steven Universe, a show about A boy with a gem in his stomach and his Magic lady guardians defending the earth...then we find out that the gems are the Remnants of an old Rebellion and Steven actually the half-breed son of the leader of a Rebellion Rose Quartz.

Unmarked Spoilers bellow

'Who's the candidate? What do they do?'

Eyeball, part of the Ruby squad Yellow Diamond sends to Earth looking For Jasper. Unfortunately the Rubies were...not Competant to say the least. And we're tricked by the Crystal Gems a few Differant times. The second time falling for Amethyst disguised as Jasper. Then after Figruing out the Latter fusing with Her fellow Rubies and attacked the Crystal Gems, to end the fight Steven Opens an Air lock sucking them out but Eyeball is able to grab Steven pulling her out with them.

Steven used his Magic bubble so he can still have Oxygen. Then Eyeball happned to come close enough to land on the Bubble(Wich Apparnely seems to have its own gravity) but is unable to Penetrate it. Thus the two floated around for awhile, with Eyeball reavaling she had actually been looking forward to Seeing the Devious Rose Quarts in person. Steven tries to say that he's(technically) rose herself. But Eyeball dosent belive him, Atleast until later when Steven saves Eyeball by bringing her into the Bubble and healing her gem. Something only Rose Quartz could do....then she tries to Carve it out of His stomach, as this would give her much Fame on Homeworld. Even After steven says killing him would pop the bubble she still tries, forcing steven to throw her out of it into the Vaccume of Space.

It's later revealed Homeworld Saved Eyeball and she Testifies against Steven during his "Trial". Pulling Never My Fault on him, Blaming him for having been thrown into space even though he tried to save her before.

What makes her personally Hateable?

Her Ungrateful Bastard attitude toward Steven trying to Carve out his gem for the sake of Fame, and the fact she Still pulls a Never My Fault during the Trial to get him Executed.

Evil Is Cool traits?

Zip.

Mitigating Factors?

She and the other Rubies initially serve an Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain role...Wich makes The Reveal of how Brutal she really is hit more.

And yes like other Gems in Pink diamonds Court she went through the war. And it's true She does have Hero Worship toward Jasper, but her motives For for trying to get Stevens Gem was largely simply being a Glory Seeker and not just revenge. And I don't think the thing with Jasper Distracts from her Hateability. And even then it seems to Largely just be because of how Ruthless Jasper was in the war.

Final Verdict?

I think she counts. Overall her charachter seems to be intended to teach a lesson, being kind and helping people isn't always going to mean the person will repay your kindness nor will they Change.

Abstaining on Eyeball.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 21st 2019 at 3:22:32 PM

I stand by my no on Eyeball. She is not particularly awful by the standards of the show. Aquarmarine is worse. And while Marty and Kevin aren't exactly "evil" like she is, they are more realistically despicable than Eyeball.

Eyeball is also kind of funny. In a way, even when she tries to kill Steven there is still an air of humor around it. Like when she gushes about how she will have her own Pearl and then comically chases him around the bubble.

Edited by username2527 on May 21st 2019 at 12:08:40 PM

No to Eyeball.

EDIT: So here's a new EP, for something that isn't dark fantasy.

What's the work? The Protomen are an indie rock band that produces music based on the Mega Man video game series. They have a heavy focus on main characters, but throughout all of Act I, (And a little bit of Act II, where they have a slightly more positive light) The crowd themselves, the people of the city, serve as a major antagonistic force by doing nothing.

Who are the crowd? The mob of people that gather anytime something major happens, and are extremely gullible and cowardly. They make numerous appearances, and when they do, it foreshadows something awful. They are exceptionally cruel, having "gathered to watch their hopes destroyed" a number of times, and they side with anyone who will give them blood without them having to actually work for it. They show up in "Hope Rides Alone", and abandon Proto Man when he needs help, watching him be brutally dismembered and presumably murdered. They then make another appearance in "The Will of One", joining Mega Man, although doing nothing, and finally resisting, or so it seems. When "The Sons of Fate" comes around, however, they chant for Proto Man to die at having derided them for not coming to save him when they had the chance, and when he gives a rant calling them out on the fact they would betray Mega Man if given the chance, they cry out for him to die. When Mega Man kills him, they ask why he cries for Proto Man, before declaring that Mega Man is their hero for killing him. Mega Man is so angered by this that he abandons them, only for them to meet their fates by the hand of the dictator they allowed to rise to power, being gunned down by Wily's robots.

In Act II, set before Act I, they have a more minor role. They immediately believe the charming and intelligent but Obviously Evil Dr. Wily, and hang on his every word, before descending into apathy the moment they are given a chance at a society which does not require them to do basic human and societal things. Then, when Wily makes a show of Light's trial for a murder he framed Light for, they protest the outcome not being the death penalty, and try to mob and kill Light themselves, demanding they hang him, then that they dismember him. They get increasingly brutal.

There are occasional exceptions to the mob, such as Light, Joe, and Wily (Who is smooth and cool, and clearly meant to be liked despite his atrocities) but they hardly ever show up but to betray and encourage death and bloodshed.

Mitigating qualities? Eh. They're an entire society, but they fell immediately under Wily's sway, tried to mob and kill the very innocent Light, who had gone under trial and was being punished, and encourage death wherever they go. At the end, nobody feels bad for them when they meet a grisly fate at the hand of Wily's robots.

They have no cool traits, being composed entirely of cowards and bloodthirsty, gullible assholes. They're also serving as a secondary antagonist to the much cooler Wily. If anything, their refusal to fight makes them worse than if they were fighters. They're too cowardly to even go after the heroes, instead just waiting until Wily's army does it for them. They don't care who dies in the end, because they just want blood, entertainment, and the ability to leave without having to do anything themselves.

Conclusion? While less violent and heinous than some examples, the crowd are easily the most hateable and scummy entity through the entire album. Cowardly, bloodthirsty, and gullible, there is nothing to like about them and plenty to dislike. I'd say yes.

Edited by Riley1sCool on May 21st 2019 at 4:32:27 AM

Tentative to the crowd.

to the Crowd, but to Eyeball.

Shere Khan from Mowgli. Yes, or no?

Edited by LionKingAlex on May 22nd 2019 at 10:26:34 AM

DEW IT

In order to properly evaluate a Hate Sink candidate, the following questions must be answered.

What is the work?

State the work and which medium it is a part of, as well as what the work is about.

Who is the character, and what do they do?

State who the character is, and what courses of action they take.

What makes them personally despicable?

State the specific reasons they are despicable, such as petty behaviour and personal villainy.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

State whether or not the character has any traits which get in the way of them being despicable, and if so, whether said traits are de-emphasised in favour of their despicable behaviour.

Verdict?

State whether or not you believe the criteria are met.

In order for this trope to be in effect, the character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author’s declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

Haman the Agagite, for instance, displays qualities of ego, bigotry, and pettiness; additionally, there is a custom of jeering at his name’s mere mention. It goes without saying, according to this thread, that Haman was intended to be despised by the audience.

Being a Draco in Leather Pants, like Draco Malfoy, or a character people Love to Hate, like Joffrey Baratheon, doesn’t preclude being a Hate Sink; being a Complete Monster, like Haman, certainly doesn't preclude this trope either.

The main concern is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

With regards to this trope, actions still generally speak louder than words. The format of editing which brings up characters who don't fit the bill, doesn't generally go into enough detail with regards to what makes these characters loathsome.

The entries for this trope should focus on who DOES qualify, not the characters who do not.

Admittedly, this trope is less complex, but, because a Hate Sink carries out loathsome actions the same way a Complete Monster carries out evil actions, and a Magnificent Bastard carries out clever actions, it is ostensibly necessary to write these entries with a similar structure, albeit usually with a shorter paragraph.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 28th 2019 at 2:07:00 PM

What is the work? Mowgli, a live-action film adaptation of Rudyard Kiplin's The Jungle Book directed by Andy Serkis. As in the original version, the story centers around the eponymous feral child who grows up among a family of wolves in search of his identity.

Who is the character, and what do they do? Shere Khan, the tiger. As in the novel, he is one of the chief antagonists, and Mowgli's Arch-Enemy. Khan regularly violates the sacred Jungle Law by killing man and his livestock, driving the local villagers to hunt innocent predators, other than himself.

What makes them personally despicable? Shere Khan is a massive hypocrite, chastising Akela over their induction of Mowgli into their pack as violation of the Law, when he breaks said Law whenever it suits his needs. He hates mankind with a vengeance, and seems to be a sadist that kills man to sate his hatred for them, rather than to quench his appetite - best shown when he claws Mowgli's arm prior to beginning to eat him alive, enjoying every second of watching the boy wince in pain. He is a manipulator and a trickster, seeing as he managed to coax a sizable portion of Akela's pack to side against him.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse? Only the fact that he is a tiger. He may have been embittered by his deformed right front paw, but neither that nor his species mitigates his acts as anything other than villainous, nor do they underscore how disreputable his conduct is. In terms of complexity, he doesn't stray too far from the usual portrayal of the vile villains.

Verdict? Fits like a glove. Shere Khan does not possess any redeeming qualities whatsoever. He's as revolting on the inside as he is on the outside.

EDIT: - 6 tropers; - 0 tropers.

Edited by LionKingAlex on May 25th 2019 at 1:15:01 PM

Shere Khan

Shere Khan

Edited by ReynTime250 on May 22nd 2019 at 11:47:29 AM

Shere Khan, also.