Duplicate tropes discussion thread

The Unsmile is when a character who isn't known to be happy or emotive smiles (or attempts to) and it comes off as creepy/uncanny/scary/funny instead of emitting the warm mess and friendliness associated with the typical smile.

Broken Smile is an empty smile that shows cracks in someone's smile as Willbyr said a few posts above.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 28th 2023 at 1:43:37 PM

I was trying to find examples for Probability Pileup when I noticed half of the examples overlap (9/16) with Oddly Common Rarity. The latter trope is way better defined than the former, so I'm struggling to list non-redundant examples.

I get that OCR is when something is explicitly stated to be rare but occurs rather frequently nonetheless. PP doesn't have that rarity requirement, which makes it very broad.

I'm guessing that it goes something along these lines — if a mook appears in one episode, it increases the chances of mooks being a common occurrence. Contrasted by a work that never shows mooks because they don't fit the plot, tone, or genre.

But if that's the case, then the description doesn't do a very good job explaining it. And if that's not the difference between the two of them, then what it is?

You're not alone; the archived discussion page has someone wonder what the difference is themselves. Does the oldest version of the page in the Internet Archive help, if only by showing which examples were the first to go on the page?

In cases like this it may be best to characterize how the trope is being used rather than try to gauge whether it's "correct" or not, though that may involve checking the usage on both pages.

Edited by MorganWick on Mar 30th 2023 at 1:52:15 AM

Death by Mocking, Offing the Mouth, Offing the Annoyance. Are these not just the same thing? I mean, I might be biased because people rejected my question to split Murder As Initiation from the super-wide A Real Man Is a Killer trope. Are tropes flexible or nah?

Edited by JethroQWalrustitty on Mar 30th 2023 at 12:18:23 PM

Death by Mocking and Offing the Mouth are definitely dupes. Offing the Annoyance is more of a supertrope since there are more ways to be annoying than mocking/snarking, but YMMV whether it's meaningfully different from the other two in practice. That'd require a wick check.

This was even mentioned on the initial draft but was brushed off [1].

It also seems like the draft was stealth-launched. The OP discusses trying to launch, is told they need 5 hats and they only have 3, tries to launch again, and then I'm assuming that one stuck.

This would have to go to TRS to fix, but DBM and OTM have less than 100 wicks so shouldn't be too much of a hassle to merge.

Edited by amathieu13 on Mar 30th 2023 at 5:48:29 AM

From the examples, Death by Mocking looks more of a duplicate of Do Not Taunt Cthulhu than the other tropes, as they are all killed by more powerful beings. Offing the Mouth applies more to regular people killing those who mock them.

Edited by petersohn on Mar 30th 2023 at 12:02:30 PM

Didn't even see that one. But yeah, whether it's Offing the Mouth or Do Not Taunt Cthulhu, Death by Mocking is redundant.

Edited by amathieu13 on Mar 30th 2023 at 6:20:39 AM

What is the difference between Doppelgänger Gets Same Sentiment and Alternate Personality Punishment? The latter just feels like The Same But More Specific.

Improved Second Attempt vs. Salvaged Story? It seems that both are created to catch examples from Author's Saving Throw after it's turned into Trivia.

As far as I can tell, Improved Second Attempt is for a reboot that's perceived as better, Salvaged Story is when they manage to fix the story without rebooting it.

Welp, three of the original examples would fit Oddly Common Rarity better because they are explicitly stated to be improbable at first and then become more common. The fourth is a zero-context example, so I'm discounting it.

I've seen Improved Second Attempt being used for sequels though. Is that misuse?

according to the sponsor of the TLP draft, sequels aren't excluded [1]

Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 6:10:52 AM

Foe Yay Shipping and War Ship? (the latter has only 31 wicks)

Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 10:04:12 AM

Foe Yay Shipping is shipping two people who oppose each other; War Ship is shipping two people from factions which oppose each other (but may not have necessarily ever opposed each other on an individual level)

There's a fair amount of overlap, one imagines.

Cheery Pink and Rose-Haired Sweetie? Their write up on Rose Haired Girl is virtually the same as are their descriptions

Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 10:17:01 AM

Cheery Pink is basically just the super trope for other forms of "pink means cheerful", while Rose-Haired Sweetie is specifically about pink hair and is more about being kind than upbeat.

Looking at examples, I don't see Rose-Haired Sweetie being used for kindness more than cheery/optimistic and to me that feels like splitting hairs. I might wick check to see how much of an overlap is really going on (same with Foe Yay Shipping and War Ship), but neither is a high priority, tbh

Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 11:47:30 AM

Rose-Haired Sweetie used to be Rose Haired Girl (now a disambiguation). RHS predates Cheery Pink by several years. I have seen Rose Haired Girl used for kindness and optimism personally (no opinion on whether or not that means anything) As for overlap, I don't really have a strong opinion about them being merged.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 3rd 2023 at 11:53:23 AM

Notably, Cheery Pink's original YKTTW saw concerns over tropeworthiness raised that weren't completely addressed, as far as I could tell.

Attractiveness Discrimination and Beauty Is Best?

• Attractiveness Discrimination: A character is given preferential treatment due to their attractiveness.
• Beauty Is Best: A character's attractiveness is regarded as their best, if not their defining feature, regardless of their other abilities.

the very first sentence of Beauty Is Best says that it extends to more than just a single character but also includes societal notions

Also this line "In short, this trope is not characters preferring beautiful people, rather them having the opinion that out of all attributes, the one to value most is the concept of outer beauty." It sounds like a belief or worldview, i.e. "lookism", which is what Attractiveness Discrimination also calls itself

Edited by amathieu13 on Apr 6th 2023 at 4:18:35 AM

The two tropes sound more or less the same to me.

What's the difference between Escort Mission and Live-Action Escort Mission?

Or, rather, why is there a section on Escort Mission for non-video game examples (as well as amassed wicks), if Live-Action Escort Mission is supposed to fulfill the same purpose?