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It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
While I agree with removing hyperbole and things that can't really be considered scary by anyone, I do worry that this cleanup effort could go too far. This is by nature a subjective trope, and I fear it will get to the point that it will result in trying to enforce objective standards on the trope of like "How scary something can be to qualify". So I think we shouldn't really go too far with this.
Just another day in the life of Jimmy Nutrin
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The same concerns came up earlier in the thread. Consensus is that in order to avoid that, we should make a list of what we're planning to cut, with explanations on why they're cut-worthy. If others agree that some things should be cut, then we get rid of it. If someone has an objection to a cut, they can explain why they think it's scary and should stay on the page.
We have some pretty objective rules on stuff that should not qualify, so these examples are pretty easy to remove. As for the really subjective ones, only the most ridiculous and blatant over-exaggerations should be removed (stuff like the Gran Turismo Nightmare Fuel page).
Honestly, I think What Are Thee has a point. Like I've said: in particular after seeing that Gran Turismo page (Oh God, not RED TEXT!!) I think it's safe to say that there are some "examples" that are way over any possible line of justification... but that still doesn't make it clear on where exactly we should draw that line. There is no universally accepted standard for "scariness".
edited 27th Sep '17 7:28:00 AM by nrjxll
Yeah, a "when in doubt, leave it in" standard seems eminently reasonable. For one thing, our opinions aren't inherently more worthy than these of editors who originally added them.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I agree with that. Take the Screen Gems logo, for example. Two rectangles form an "S" and the text "Screen Gems" appears below it, while a synth theme plays. Sound scary? I wouldn't say so. But it's widely considered very scary by many, many people, to the point there was even a documentary about it!
No, the other one.
If it's a chained sinkhole, just delete it.
In post 72, those I agree with cutting are:
- Neoshadows: Doesn't describe anything as scary.
- Sephiroth's Unflinching Walk: Intimidating is not the same as NF.
- A small manner of nightmare fuel...: Too speculative.
- Xehanort/Rikunort stabs Lexaeus: Might be a keepable, but not as written. Too many irrelevant details, and no real context as to why it's NF.
- Nobodies: Example doesn't make sense. Seems to fit a different trope.
- Many of The Disney Villains: Generic "example". Doesn't specify anything. Not any example of anything.
In post 74, those I agree with cutting are:
- Ever notice how there aren't many local residents in the game?: Just an add-on note that doesn't actually add anything.
- Monstro travel: Squick, not NF, as described.
- Made even worse by the fight itself...: Unnecessary addition to whatever it adds to.
- Xemnas's electric shock attack: Lacks context. Could potentially fit, but not as written.
- Clones in Neverland: Fridge, or not an example. Either or.
- The Phantom: Doesn't describe anything frightening at all.
- The Final Rest is a peaceful...: Doesn't describe anything frightening. The warning also includes positive reinforcement.
- Ansem: Natter, and doesn't describe what's actually scary about him.
- Naminé, Marluxia and Larxene: Speculative. Nothing about what is, and all about what could be.
- This game in general: Generic "example".
- The final floor: ZCE.
- Oogie Boogie drinks a potion: Speculative.
- Larxene: This is not a character trope.
- The lead-up to the boss fight: More an Oh, Crap! than NF. Doesn't hit the note.
- This was mentioned on a Fridge Horror page: So don't copy it over here.
- Scar: Not a character trope.
- The final part of the final battle: Doesn't describe what's scary about that.
- Slightly mitigated...: Unnecessary addition.
- Most of the chapter...: Useless addition.
- Saix's berserker state: Weblinks Are Not Examples.
If you cut something for length, I'm going to judge doubtful on that, which means keep.
The rest I give the benefit of a doubt enough to keep them. There's at least something there that could potentially be NF, and I think cutting those is overstepping in judgement.
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Blapper of Water
The problem with a "when in doubt, leave it in" doctrine is that someone has to voice their doubt, which is essentially the same as "If someone has an objection to a cut, they can explain why they think it's scary and should stay on the page." Which is basically saying that there just needs to be a discussion or opportunity for a discussion, which is what we're already doing.
And I think it's a good idea for people to voice their concerns about this "going too far," and I hope these people participate in the discussion (even lurking until they find something they object to). That said, the slippy slope objection isn't really a valid reason not to have this clean-up effort in the first place. (Unless I'm misunderstanding the comment, but I'm not sure why you'd make that comment unless that was what you were trying to say?)
If y'all are just trying to discuss boundaries for this clean-up effort, then I think a decent place to start would be cases where someone re-adds something. Like if the reason is "didn't clearly scare the troper who added the example" but then someone replaces it and it's pretty clear how that thing scared them, then I'd say that's fine to add. Because it's a subjective trope, there could be a case where something wasn't scary to Alice even though she originally added the example but it was scary to Bob who re-added the example, and so long as Bob's example is written in such a way that anyone could see how it scared him, then I think that's more or less fine.
EDIT: Also, I'm going to cut the stuff Duck responded to for #72.
edited 27th Sep '17 1:28:48 PM by WaterBlap
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I've been cleaning up NightmareFuel.Breaking Bad and NightmareFuel.Better Call Saul. There are a few examples I think might not fit:
Both pages have a "In general" section. Breaking Bad's is a list of the non-nice characters, which I think should be cut since their worst specific acts should already be listed on the page already. Better Call Saul's is as follows:
- Having your own brother, whom you love and who you believe loves you and of whom you spend years as the primary caretaker actively working to undermine you whenever he can. Seeing the relationship go down the drain due to that very fact.
- Finding out you possibly have a malignant narcissist for an older brother.
- Wanting to stop breaking the rules but your best mate's way of doing things accomplishes things in a way your hard working straight ways can't, forcing you to throw your lot in with him, despite his Chronic Anti-Villainy.
which is not exactly Nightmare Fuel material. Also, they're written in second-person for some reason.
For more specific dubious examples: Breaking Bad's page was surprisingly good with its Nightmare Fuel. There's only one example which looks like it might not qualify:
- In "Over," the way that Walter says "Stay out of my territory", and the facial expression that goes along with it are not just scary to the drug dealers to whom he says it, but to the audience as well. This is a show about horrible criminals committing terrible deeds, with plenty of gory murders. I think that someone who enjoys that kind of show would be mentally strong enough to not be spooked by a facial expression and vague threat.
Better Call Saul is a bit messier, though. These could probably be cut:
- The billboard worker falling off the billboard and being left to dangle. True it was staged and he's "rescued", but still, imagine if Jimmy wasn't there to pull him up or Jimmy slipped while climbing. There's no way he could have died, since the whole incident was staged specifically so Jimmy could rescue him. It would only be mildly disturbing at first, until you find out it was staged and any scariness vanishes.
- As funny as Tony the Toilet Buddy is, imagine all the trauma that will affect poor Chandler later. Jimmy seems to be onto something with that remark about Chandler needing therapy. This is Fridge Horror, and not very good one at that. Pretty much everyone who watches the show considers Tony to be one of the biggest Funny Moments of the season.
- Although Jimmy's scheme to get himself fired is funny to watch, it's also a bit disturbing how sociopathically self-centered he's become since the start of Season 2, especially as Cliff was nothing but good to him. Another funny moment shoehorned into Nightmare Fuel. "A bit disturbing" doesn't cut it for this page.
- Jimmy's almost sociopathic rationalizations for the phony war veteran stunt can be seen as a disturbing half-way point into his transformation into Saul. "Can be seen as..." implies that it didn't actually scare the editor who added this.
- Being arrested by Border Patrol can be seen as this if you as the driver had no idea drug grams were leaked onto your van and the police dogs turn up out of the blue despite taking precautions. It's unpleasant for the driver, but since most of the show's viewers (hopefully) aren't drug smugglers, it wouldn't be scary for them.
No, the other one.
Regarding the "when in doubt" doctrine, I think it's less about opening a discussion about someone presenting an argument for keeping examples, and more about presenting clear evidence for cutting examples. Considering it is a YMMV trope, and we're trying to not overdo it, I'd say the burden of proof is on the cutter.
When people bring up examples en masse like this, I think it's more of a first-pass kind of deal than a complete cleanup of everything on the page, since that would also include rewriting everything that's in doubt so it's more clear.
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No, the other one.
The first three bullets in the box are not NF. As noted, they should not be written in second person, and that also weakens the point of them. They're not describing something from a work as much as telling you what you should or could feel.
- "Over" example: Out of place for the type of work. It's significantly lighter than most of it outside casual conversations. Cut.
- Billboard example: It's mostly speculative. However, fear of heights isn't just a personal phobia. It's something to be legitimately afraid of. I'm kind of undecided on this one. Leaning towards cut beause of what was revealed afterwards, but I'd want a second opinion or three.
- Tony the Toilet Buddy: Having to specifically imagine something means it's entirely speculative. Cut.
- Jimmy's scheme: Disturbing, maybe, but that's not what Nightmare Fuel means. Cut.
- Jimmy's rationalizations: Likewise.
- Being arrested by Border Patrol: It could maybe fit into Adult Fear, but even that seems a little off to me. Undecided.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
The entry about being arrested by Border Patrol is kinda weirdly-worded. It's easy to misread and assume that the driver was just an innocent person set up to be arrested for a crime he didn't commit. He was actually well aware that he was smuggling meth. The example is basically saying "It's scary for a criminal to be caught for his crimes." which I don't think is Nightmare Fuel.
No, the other one.
Yeah, that's the thing, and the example seems to project a criminal's fears onto non-criminals, since that's not something you'd normally think about. I'm not familiar with it, so I can only really judge by what's written. However, with that clarification, trash it.
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When I said length, I meant it took up easily half the page, haha. I'll paste it in here; there might still be something it could be chopped down to:
- The paranoia fuel part comes in when you realise that Sora and Riku are being CONSTANTLY watched by Organization XIII. They pop up litteraly everywhere they go...as if they know where they're going to be. That's not all, either: They can teleport everywhere around the castle, wich means that escaping them is nigh-impossible and since they can mess with people's memories...Sora can't even trust his own memories, he can't trust anyone and he can't even trust himself. What makes it scary is that since Castle Oblivion litterally operates on a Bag of Spilling logic, they lose all of their strenght, wich means that the organization could wipe the floor with them easily...at first.
- The tear jerker part comes in if you played the prequel games or if you know the castle's origins. Castle Oblivion wasn't always like this. It used to be a much happier place where keyblade students trained peacefully under Master Eraqus's tutelage. Master Eraqus was the owner(sort of) of the castle and thanks to him, It used to be a safe place where you could watch the beautiful starry night sky with your friends...but now, when you look up, all you see is an endless void. Also, back in the old days, it was known by another name and it looked much more beautiful. There were no heartless to be worried about and the darkness had no hold over it. If you compare the castle before and after it became what it is today, you can see a major difference. The sad part is that it's also a place of tragedy, where Master Eraqus was killed(?) by one of his oldest friends after fighting one of his own students, wich marked the beggining of the castle's transformation into the nightmarish place that it is today. Once you learn of the castle's origins, you may never look at it the same way again.
edit: I can do wiki markup, I've been here for years I swear. I'll go ahead and pull the trigger on the cuts you agreed with.
edited 27th Sep '17 6:09:47 PM by InsanityPrelude
No, the other one.
The first bullet is long, has a bunch of Word Cruft, but it does at least read like an example. The second two bullets don't add to that trope. They might add to the tropes they talk about, but then they should be listed there, not on a NF page. Not sure exactly how to edit it, but you can probably just remove the " It's a rare combination of Nightmare Fuel, Paranoia Fuel and Tear Jerker. Think about it:" part. Even from just the few pages of examples we've seen in the thread we've seen that combination, so it can't be that rare. And it's off topic anyway.
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Blapper of Water
Some of that isn't even accurate to the work. Sora and his friends lose their memories because of Namine, and it's only the memories that relate to Sora's existence (this is why Donald and Goofy forget about Sora but not about Mickey). The information was told to Sora by Marluxia (who had every reason to lie about it). Moreover, the castle's layout is determined by the memories of the person going through the door, and then only when they have special map cards made from their memories.
I say split and cut the stuff that couldn't possibly count (or is misleading information). That first bullet, when not being inaccurate, actually describes "unsettling" less than it does "scary," and I think it ought to be cut completely for that reason That said, I'll offer a replacement if only to remove the false or misleading information.
Obviously the Paranoia Fuel and Tear Jerker bullets go in the appropriate subpages, not Nightmare Fuel. That said, I'm not sure if that PF entry even counts as Paranoia Fuel? And the Tear Jerker thing requires you to have played Birth By Sleep... le shrug.
Could keep the following:
- Castle Oblivion itself. The outside architecture is bizarre and off-putting, and the interior design is stark white despite obviously being an abandoned castle, and each of the rooms look exactly the same when not altered by map cards. The ominous music in the background intensifies how unsettling the building's design is.
edited 27th Sep '17 6:44:54 PM by WaterBlap
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Blapper of Water
It's been a few days and I have some comments for another page that I stumbled upon.
NightmareFuel.Cuphead also exists and it seems to be a bit over-the-top concerning the headless characters. I think the following could be cut for either not clearly scaring the troper (or just being plot points), or not appearing in the work. The stuff I put under "doesn't seem to be scary" is stuff that seems to happen throughout the work. My point is that you would eventually either stop playing the game or get desensitized to it. At some point, it stops being so nightmare-inducing that it's a Nightmare Fuel entry.
- Starting off with the plot, the Devil tricks Cuphead into gambling his and Mugman's souls for the Devil's entire fortune after a winning streak at his casino. Thanks to Cuphead's greed, he ends up putting both his and his brother's lives on the line.
- In fact, the game really has a hard-on for decapitation. The intro song mentions it, and it's proven to not be a figure of speech if you lose to the Devil in the final phases), Cuphead and Mugman remove their heads when getting supers, Baroness Von Bon Bon removes and regrows her head several times, Cali Maria detaches her head from her body in her the last phase of her fight, and Rumor Honeybottom lowers her head in the middle of her fight to attack you. The only one it makes sense for is Dr. Kahl, and that's just due to piloting his robot, whose body you destroy. [Note: This was the second bullet to the quoted material in "Promotional material, not from the work itself".]
- [Note: Under "Let's talk bosses" bullet. I'm putting this head bullet here to keep these organized like they are on the page.]
- How Wally Warbles meets his end is darkly humorous, with his medic birds putting salt on him and preparing to eat him.
- The Phantom Express. It starts out with a cyclops ghost with an empty eye socket and eyes in its hands. It attacks by throwing the eyes at you. Then comes the second phase: a giant skeleton busts out to try and flatten you!
- [Note: Under "A few of the boss areas".]
- A cigar boss has you fighting him right above a pit of flames on two ashtrays.
- Another one of the bosses has you fighting a tower of poker chips on a card table with the people in the background being skeletons. Yeesh.
- Another boss is on a haunted derby track with you dealing with undead horse jockeys. The main boss here is a horse skeleton who fires exploding presents out of his rib cage.
- An Eightball with floating eyes and teeth.
- Cuphead and Mugman can agree to the Devil's terms just before fighting him. If they do so, the player is granted a bad ending where both of them turn demonic while the Devil says they're going to have 'one hell of a time'.
Doesn't seem to be scary, considering the artstyle of the work. Also, how many times does a boss taking off their head happen before you get desensitized to it
- [Note: Under "Let's talk bosses" bullet. I'm putting this head bullet here to keep these organized like they are on the page.]
- At the start of the fight with Cagney Carnation, he does a cutesy pose, only to suddenly stretch his face as he roars at you, and he has a maniacal grin through the rest of the battle. He really seems to love stretching his face, because one of his attacks in phase one is stretching his face forward. Then phase three of the fight comes around. Cagney pulls on his petals like someone tugging at their hair in frustration. This doesn't seem like something creepy, but then he makes thorny roots cover the ground while his face turns even more sinister, with his teeth turning into fangs and his eyes getting more detail. Oh, you think it's over? NOPE! You defeat Cagney and you see his defeat pose. His eyes suddenly vanish, leaving two empty sockets behind.. And he's only one of the first bosses!
- Hilda Berg's main design is cute enough: Betty Boop with a blimp body for the most part; her transformations as constellations aren't even that bad, either. Then you hit her final form. She suddenly morphs into a bizarre moon-like creature that invokes a wicked witch vibe. That's just the start of her transition. Pretty soon after, her face pops out, just like Cagney Carnation. The only difference is her face stays popped out, revealing machinery. And for the rest of the fight, she just laughs.
- The dragon boss, Grim Matchstick, looks pretty goofy at first, even trying to psyche himself up by making a "boo" motion at the player before the battle begins. However, once you get past his second phase, he suddenly splits his head into three without warning. Not helped at all that the weather suddenly changes from a blue sky into a stormy one.
- Baroness Von Bon Bon has quite a few moments. Some of the candy coated creeps she sends your way look a bit odd. Examples being a giant candy corn with a monster face or a flying waffle that fights by exploding then coming back together. The Baroness first taunts you by having her head pop off then retreating into her castle which is also alive with eyes on the towers and the gate acting as the mouth. Make it to the second half and the Baroness emerges from behind the castle wall, gives you an award-winning psychotic grin, tugs on the castle towers.....and the castle turns monstrous with yellow eyes, the gate opening like a mouth, the walls turn into hands and it starts crawling towards you!. And to top it off, the baroness will start throwing her own head at you! She's even holding her severed head in the game over screen!
- Beppi the Clown, as expected, can be creepy at times. His Cheshire grin can be a little creepy, along with most of the faces he makes, but then comes the later phases. In the second phase, he turns into a balloon and his head separates from his body! And he sends evil balloon animals after you along with a monstrous roller coaster with some creepy riders. And then for the last phase, he turns into a carousel, laughing all the way. And the face he makes when he spawns enemies is especially unsettling. And then his defeat pose...
- Djimmi the Great is a prime example of the Deranged Animation next to Beppi: One of his actions has him shooting his skull from his head at you. The evil faces on the pillar section of the face is very unsettling. That pink...thing that comes out the sarcophagus during that phase likewise doesn't help. And in his final phase, he goes utterly giant-sized, taking up most the screen, all the while having an echoing evil laugh that is just as creepy.
- The lovely Cala Maria starts out as a giant mermaid who can spit ghost pirates at you! Then the second phase where electric eels shock her and turn her into a gorgon (trust us, just go with it), which isn't that scary until the third phase. Her body turns to stone, leaving only her disembodied flying head to fight!
- One of Cuphead's power-ups has him temporarily transform into a giant version of his head with empty, black eyes.
Promotional material, not from the work itself
- Early promos of the game show the devil making a neck slice motion after winning the game. In the shadows on the wall, you can see their heads being cut off by the motion to drive home the point of his threat.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Ok I am going to tackle the Tri-gun Entries a section at time.
Trigun
- The Roedrick gang work as slavers and are introduced as hauling their current batch of slaves to an organ harvesting operation.
Changed because it never says they are the ones running the business but do business with it bringing slaves.
- The way Legato kills Johnson in the bar. Using his powers, Legato forces Johnson to rip his own heart out with his own bare hands.
Changed because this is the manga reference and there is some minor distinctions between anime and managa.
- The men who attack Wolfwood in the Church. Under their masks, their mouths are sewn shut & they have screws in their eyes!
The commentary about the Roedrick's jackets is natter and gives no actual information.
- Right after Knives makes his grand entrance, Legato sees Vash and orders the Gung-Ho Guns to "Kill him!!" Cue Knives breaking all of Legatos limbs and his neck but leaving him alive. Legato is then entombed in a coffin like contraption to recover.
Changed to reflect what actually happened.
Ok this is this the first rough draft of the first section.
Who watches the watchmen?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I'm not too familiar with Cuphead (I've heard about it, but I haven't played it, just watched a little bit of gameplay footage) so I can't tell for sure which examples are scary and which ones aren't, but here are my comments anyway:
- Being trapped in a Deal with the Devil can absolutely qualify as Nightmare Fuel. I wouldn't cut it.
- A character's head being detached is not automatically Nightmare Fuel. Many of these seem to be cases of Losing Your Head ("non-lethal" decapitations) rather than Off with His Head!.
- Wally Warbles' death doesn't read like it's scary at all, in fact the wording seems to present it as being funny rather than scary.
- Phantom Express sounds like it could be scary. The entry probably needs a reword to emphasize this, however.
- All of the boss areas are Zero Context Examples. Easy cut.
- The bad ending might be scary enough to keep.
- Of the bosses, Beppi the Clown and Djimmi the Great read like they could qualify. The rest sound like exaggerations for the sake of padding out the page.
- The power-up probably isn't Nightmare Fuel, since getting a power-up is a good thing, which would counteract any fear it could inflict.
edited 2nd Oct '17 4:02:00 PM by Zuxtron
Blapper of Water
Took out the ZC Es and will wait for further feedback on the others. I don't agree about this particular case of Deal with the Devil, because I have seen Let's Plays for this game and, while Cuphead and Mugman are clearly scared for their souls, it isn't like anything physically happens to them.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Nightmare Fuel isn't just about physical harm. The threat of eternal torment in Hell can easily be terrifying to some, even if it doesn't happen. I think that Mugman got dragged into the deal against his will, which furthers the scariness.
With that said, it doesn't scare me at all, but I can still see how it could be disturbing to other people.
Also, there's a Fridge Horror example at the end of the page, which should also be cut or moved to the Fridge tab.
No, the other one.
I was going to write a more extensive post, but I basically agree with Zuxtron.
The bosses in particilar read much like IKEA Erotica for Nightmare Fuel. They just don't give any impression of anything scary, just a list of things that happen. Sometimes with an exclamation mark for no obvious reason.
Trying to logically explain why someone shouldn't be afraid of something doesn't work. The consideration we work with here is if someone could be scared by it, not if they should. Personally I'd prefer a much higher bar, but that's the one we're working with. This is a YMMV trope.
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Blapper of Water
I thought I was saying that you couldn't be scared from this particular case. Am I just too exhausted right now, or are you saying it's not about particular cases.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
No, the other one.
What I read you saying was that you didn't agree it was scary because it wasn't physical harm. It's an incomplete argument, and the closest I get to it is an implied Converse Error. (Physical harm can be scary; it's not physical harm; therefore it's not scary.)
I was saying you referred specifically to one argument as if it's not logical to be afraid because of that reason, and that reason alone. However, fear is by nature irrational, and there are other reasons to be afraid of something. I think saying you can't be afraid of something because it's not physical harm is like saying something is scary because it's a skeleton.
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Ah. No, I meant "nothing happens to them." Here's a video of the scene (set to play when the Devil shows up): link. They're handed the dice and then they throw it and then they're on they're knees pleading for their souls. We aren't shown them losing their souls, though we are shown them making a deal with the Devil.
My argument's more like: "If losing their souls is scary then something showing they've lost their souls should happen to them. Nothing happens to them in this case, so it isn't scary in this case."
EDIT: But yeah there's little value in pushing this point, so if it's still not convincing, that's fine by me. If it isn't convincing, I'd like to hear why though for future reference.
edited 4th Oct '17 4:56:20 AM by WaterBlap
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Yeah, I don't think a Complete Monster is itself this. Particular actions that they do? Sure. But something like "Xehanort... Just Xehanort" doesn't make an example, and even then the focus of the entry ought to be particular actions.
Also, yeah, there's a bunch of joke-y sinkholes. I'll remove some of the obvious stuff, like Incredibly Lame Pun. Also, aren't All Blue Entries deprecated?
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