TLP Crash Rescue - Fixing prematurely launched TLPs and pages

That is odd...

Cedar Fair Entertainment is a newly created page, but it is devoid of tropes.

Pages in Ride/ are work pages like any other and need to feature trope examples.

Unlaunched Funeral Cut and messaged.

Edit: Due to a substantial amount of content added after its launch, I salvaged the contents.

Edited by Berrenta on Jan 8th 2019 at 10:04:24 AM

Our Humans Are Different appears to be rogue-launched by whalewithwings. I don't see that they participated in the draft.

Edited by bitemytail on Jan 8th 2019 at 11:40:20 AM

^ Yep, send that one back.

Besides, that one was still under some discussion regarding the draft's scope and such.

Unlaunched, message sent.

Edited by Berrenta on Jan 8th 2019 at 5:59:16 AM

Mitten Hands was just launched.

While the launcher did contribute a bit to the draft, meaning this isn't a rogue launch, I take a little issue with the quality of the examples (many just say "this character has this") and the subpar description, which notably lacks any real meaning to the existence of Mitten Hands and just says that, well, it exists.

I'll unlaunch and ask that the description and examples be expanded upon.

Disneyland is a good start with a lengthy description, but it doesn't have tropes.

Creator messaged.

Anxiety In 3 D, Apocalypse Island, The Boneyard, Clown Attack, The Crypt Keepers Studio Tour Of Terror, The Gauntlet, Midway Of Dr Morose, The Slaughterhouse and Terror Underground Transit To Torment, Total Chaos are all stubs with zero to two trope examples.

They're a bit older (Sept.-Oct. 2018), and were all made by the same creator, sotnosen95 (messaged for each work page).

Edited by StFan on Jan 10th 2019 at 3:46:38 PM

Heads up about a draft that the sponsor wants to launch (has announced intention to do so soon). Exotico has been around a while but has an unclear description, an equal number of bombs and hats, an admitted strong bias from the sponsor, oh, and exactly no input from anyone at all, except for "the laconic is bad" and "the description is unclear". Sponsor doesn't seem to understand TLP, I've told them not to launch it, let's see what happens.

I tossed a bomb and left a comment.

Wrap-Up Song was launched with 4 net hats. The launcher did contribute to the draft so we're good there, but it was also sitting untouched since mid-October; they'd actually asked back then if it were okay to launch, got no answer for months, and then decided to launch just yesterday.

Unlaunched.

Feathered Dragons has just been launched. I don't have any issues with the trope specifically, but I just want to clarify the relationship with Feathered Serpent.

Judging by the trope description of both pages, only Mesoamerican-influenced dragons should be listed under Feathered Serpent with everything else (European, Asian, Middle Eastern, Ancient Egyptian, etc.) being listed under Feathered Dragons. Is that correct?

Should non-Mesoamerican examples that are on the Feathered Serpent page be moved to Feathered Dragons? (For example, there's a Chinese dragon example and an Egyptian example on the Feathered Serpent page that appear to have nothing to do with the Mesoamerican depiction, they just happen to be feathered dragons.)

Also, should the description of Feathered Serpent on the Dragon Tropes be changed accordingly? (It currently describes the trope as ' A snake (or snake-like creature) with feathers (or feather-like projections)' — which is a little bit different to both the Feathered Dragons and Feathered Serpent tropes claiming it's about depiction based specifically on Mesoamerican feathered serpents.)

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 12th 2019 at 2:14:52 PM

That's tough, because what it comes down to is: what's the difference between a serpent and a dragon in this context?

If we define dragons as "supernatural and/or mythical reptilian-y things," then all Feathered Serpents are also Feathered Dragons, and therefore Feathered Serpent is a Sub-Trope of Feathered Dragons which specifically covers examples that are Mesoamerican in origin or influence and have serpentine features (as opposed to dragons that more closely resemble dinosaurs or non-serpent reptiles).

It's tough to define dragons that way, though, or indeed, to define "dragon" at all, because there's so much variability in what's considered a "dragon," hence the Our Dragons Are Different trope.

To look at it the other way, what's the overlap between Feathered Serpent and Feathered Dragons? There's probably some, but is it total? Is it important whether the word "dragon" is used to describe a Feathered Serpent?

Edit: Also, it's annoying that Feathered Serpent is singular while Feathered Dragons is plural. According to Creating New Redirects, redirects should not be used for pluralization purposes since you can use curly brackets to pluralize a singular trope name (e.g. use {{Feathered Serpent}}s to change Feathered Serpent to Feathered Serpents). I motion that Feathered Dragons be moved to Feathered Dragon for easier wicking.

Edited by HighCrate on Jan 12th 2019 at 7:04:37 AM

Regarding Disneyland, we already have Disney Theme Parks. If someone wants to split that page, fine (although I wouldn't do it until the page is too long) but why create a page for Disneyland and not any of the other parks?

Also Mitten Hands sounds like the same as Fingerless Hands. (It's been cut, but just saying).

Edited by Lymantria on Jan 12th 2019 at 5:06:46 AM

It seems to be this. Or this is how I'm interpreting the intent (including Feathered Serpent seeming like it's the sub-trope). The tropes do talk of the 'cultural baggage' associated with the Mesoamerican use and style, but doesn't really explain what that cultural baggage is and why it's important, beyond the fact that the Mesoamerican use is about depicting Mesoamerican gods as dragons.

So, there seems to be a 'divine' component to Feathered Serpent, almost an implication that the being isn't so much a dragon as a divine being manifesting in a dragon form, and the Feathered Serpent trope suggests they're representing some kind of duality between humans and the gods... but then it goes on to say that can be ignored in favour of Rule of Cool instead.

The trouble with the Mesoamerican focus of Feathered Serpent is that its not the only culture to link the form of the dragon to gods. Indeed, even the European dragons have that pre-Christian association (it's the Christian associations that turned the European dragon into a symbol of 'evil' or 'destruction', and even then Christianity was using the dragon to symbolise Satan — creating more divine symbology in the sense that it represents the Angel who fell from God's grace, and thus God's concept of Evil, rather than God) and the common European depictions is not a serpentine form (although some of the older pre-Christian fragments of dragon lore indicate that the Celts and the Norse, and perhaps others, depicted their dragons in serpentine form, forms that were eventually morphed into the more modern, reptilian appearance).

And, of course, we've already got a trope for the role dragons take in representing, symbolising, or even being, gods: Dragons Are Divine (which also uses a serpentine dragon for the image, albeit not one with feathers) and Dragons Are Demonic (for the Satanic/evil use, but still often with divine symbolism). So is Feathered Serpent a sub-trope of Dragons Are Divine, that is either Mesoamerican-specific or specific to divine connections that involve feathers, or does the Rule of Cool curveball in the trope description mean that Feathered Serpent is something else that might or might not also use the Dragons Are Divine trope depending on depiction (in which case, there's no longer any Mesoamerican cultural baggage to accommodate in the trope description — and that sounds like a trope rewrite to me).

We've got so many dragon tropes that don't seem to have good boundaries between each other that I'm starting wonder if we should have a clean-up of them — at the very least, a description clean-up.

It doesn't help that the images for both Feathered Dragons and Feathered Serpent increase the ambiguity:

• The Feathered Serpent image is just a generic image of a serpentine dragon, with absolutely no hint that there's any kind of Mesoamerican cultural link or symbolism involved.
• The Feathered Dragons image is of a form that is essentially serpentine, but the greater development of the legs than is typical for serpentine forms just adds to the ambiguity of where one trope ends and the other begins (because the image is basically a hybrid of the typical modern dragon form and the typical serpentine dragon form).

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 13th 2019 at 12:37:48 PM

Dog In The Manger launched with three net hats, as well as an unresolved title discussion- while there was a crowner active and the OP did launch with the title that had the most votes, it still seems a bit... quick.

Unlaunched.

FYI, page is here. It was launched at three days on the dot.

Another day, another bad draft getting an excessive number of hats. This time, it's Self-Exile, which had a good number of hats by the time it was given a bump and keeps getting more, despite the lack of a DESCRIPTION.

Found Runner Runner, which was created over 5 years ago and has 0 tropes on it, and the troper who created it appears to have been bounced from the wiki back in 2015.

^That can be put on the cutlist for being a stub unless you want to revamp it.

Reiterating that Feathered Dragons should be moved to the singular Feathered Dragon for ease of wicking. Better to do this now than when it gathers more wicks.

Edited by HighCrate on Jan 15th 2019 at 6:04:01 AM