Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

Sounds more like Audience-Alienating Ending, which I don't see on the page. I agree that Misaimed Fandom doesn't fit, readers could acknowledge they are incompetent but hope that they would grow to be better functioning.

Chikn Nuggit

Broken Base:

• Sometime after Bezel's introduction, since it was confirmed that Bezel would play a part in some kind of "storyline", it was clear that Kyra wanted to take Chikn Nuggit in a new direction. A discussion then sparked about that, or more specifically: should Chikn "become something greater than shorts"? in other words: should the series get rid of the shorts format, in favor of having longer episodes? On one hand, the series could expand upon its lore, episode plots, and characters more than 30-second shorts could. Another major point is that it'll keep the series fresh as this was around the time that it was experiencing the most negative feedback it has ever seen. Such feedback is directed in regards to being tired of the jokes and gags, finding the characters interesting, but flat, and just being bored of the format in general. Some have even argued that they want longer episodes, but with more of a casual slice of lifestyle, and maybe an epic adventurous story, like the lore currently being made in the works. And with a tv series being developed soon, people have stated that the lore should continue on there. On the other side, some fans believe that the episodes being bite-sized skits is the series' main appeal, and what the series should always be, and that introducing more serious stories and lore will ruin that. Some are even afraid that Chikn Nuggit would become "super serious" and it'll lose its humorous appeal.
• Following that, every time the series tried its hand at having some big serious lore or story beat, the reaction can get a bit mixed. While it has been liked by some fans of the show, it has also been criticized, especially by others who were originally fans but stopped watching after sometime, mainly due to the fact that it either barely makes any sense, can get tiresome and tedious to watch, or is just rather silly and dumb. And also, some people have made points that making lore in a miniseries is not really possible, especially with just sub-30 second bite sized shorts. Is all the "serious lore" really an interesting way to take the series in a new direction and explore the characters more? Or is it part of a series that originally started off simple, but is now trying to make a half-baked attempt at trying to be deep and interesting for no reason other than to get people talking? Not helping is that lore shorts have had an inconsistent schedule, taking a few weeks long, or even a month or two, mainly due to the fact that the show still does its standard form of episodes that take up 90% of the show, with very few lore shorts happening. Because of this, fans of this show eagerly waiting for the lore shorts have been angered in impatience ever since, especially when they want their questions regarding the lore to be answered already.

Humoungous Wall of Text filled with complaining.

From Sliding Scale of Silliness vs. Seriousness:

• Pierce Brosnan's Bond started out fairly seriously in GoldenEye, but did often retain some camp elements and comedic bits. However, his films got sillier and stupider as they went along. Unfortunately, it wasn't the like the sort of fun, goofy, warm, affectionate camp that came to embody the Roger Moore era. They did try to keep the serious tone from Golden Eye, despite the plots becoming more convoluted and ridiculous. Really, it was just plain bad writing, which often tried to awkwardly marry together silly plots with the insistence that it was all Serious Business.

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Can anybody think of a way to get the point about the uneven tone across without bashing the post Goldeneye films? Especially since Tomorrow Never Dies and The World Is Not Enough are looked back more fondly in the 2020s, with Die Another Day being the only one of Brosden’s films to be considered outright bad these days.

Edited by Mariofan99 on Mar 6th 2024 at 7:20:10 AM

Second that as a fan of the show. I'll admit that i'm not really active in the fandom itself, i just enjoy the shorts as-is, so i can't comment if there's an actual divide, but tbh i doubt its as big as that's claiming to be.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 6th 2024 at 4:57:15 AM

Wrong thread.

Edited by Riolugirl on Mar 7th 2024 at 7:26:44 PM

We actually have a cleanup for that trope, though it's not very active.

The Simpsons S7 E11 "Marge Be Not Proud":

• Recycled Script:
  • This episode has been described as Marge’s version of "Itchy & Scratchy: The Movie" (only as a depressing Christmas Episode instead of a funny, off-season episode).

This seems like unnecessary snark to me.

You can cut the bolded bit.

regarding the chicken nugget example

I'd say the overall sentiment true, but it definitely needs to be condensed

Bumping this https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13327578050A72722200&page=525#comment-13103

I found this on YMMV.Time And Eternity and I'm unsure if it is complaining or not;

• Bile Fascination: The game has earned a reputation for being one of the worst RPGs ever, the game tries to combine both elements of RPG and dating simulation but ultimately falls flat on both fronts. On the RPG side combat is sluggish and clunky, generic fetch quests are plentiful, monster encounters are too high, and battles are incredibly easy to break after grinding for a short while. The dating sim side is no better with a fairly generic fantasy story with mostly bland characters, bad voice acting, and a tone that has a hard time balancing comedy with drama. This awful reputation has resulted in it becoming a collector's item for the Playstation 3.

That Recycled Script example is misuse anyway. There's only thematic similarities but the actual plot unfolds in different ways. (For one, Bart's conflict is more internal in Marge Be Not Proud and more external in IASTM.)

Ready to Rumble has a ton of complaining, including the page quote which is just a reviewer snarking about the film.

I've noticed this on Getsu Fuma Den

• Broken Base: As with anything that has to do with Konami in the 2020's, years after the controversy that crushed their reputation (mostly in the West), and their rocky start in their return to PC gaming and e-sports at the same time, Undying Moon faces an uphill battle of reception. On one hand, there's the camp who believe that this (or really, just anything) is not enough to convince them that 'Konami has learned their lessons' and continue to lambast them for 'still being an evil company that doesn't make games', with an addition of accusing it for copying Dead Cells (even if they're basically just indie games of the same genre). On the other hand, there's the camp who's welcoming that this is a normal, harmless game by Konami and had their moments of fun and is fine with the copying since it's a normal, accepted practice in the industry.
  • The problem really isn't so much the fact that the game is a Dead Cells clone, but a lesser copy of it: worse movement, boring procedurally-generated levels and just a general lack of content that make each run less tedious. Unfortunately, because of the state the game was released as Konami has seemingly halteed further development on the game, meaning that the rest of the planned content (which was confirmed since day 1 and most is already in the game files) will never see the light of day...

First bullet point was by me. Second bullet point was by another.

I'm not going to say that the second bullet doesn't have merits. But... is it just me or it just sounds more like "This is why Konami sucks because they half-assed their efforts and not going to update anymore!" kind of Natter because it just goes off the tangets on what a Broken Base should be? I thought if the problem is about 'lesser copy, boring levels, lack of content', they could have put this on the main description.

Wrong indentation too...

So... what do you think should be done? I propose integrating to the main bullet point but expanding it by saying that it's also considered lackluster in quality, but the welcoming camp seems to be pretty okay with it. (The discontinued part can just GO.)

Dealing with Konami and staying neutral or even positive can be a bit hard because it's such a big acceptable target and I may even risk getting accused of righting great wrongs...

Edited by ChrisX on Mar 14th 2024 at 10:56:47 PM

If the issue of the game being a copy of Dead Cells is an actual problem to a lot of players, that seems like it should be the focus of the first bullet, but the criticisms of Konami don't seem necessary since Konami being controversial is definitely not exclusive to this game.

Second bullet isn't even Broken Base. It's just listing a bunch of things that are wrong with the game.

Gotcha. I think I've come up with the simplified version of this, with probably proper indentation so it doesn't become a Wall of Text.

• Broken Base: As with anything that has to do with Konami in the 2020's, years after the controversy that crushed their reputation (mostly in the West), and their rocky start in their return to PC gaming and e-sports at the same time, Undying Moon faces an uphill battle of reception.
  • The haters are still not convinced about Konami 'learning their lessons' and continue the usual condemnation of them 'not making games anymore'. Additionally, they view this game as an inferior copy of fellow Roguelike game Dead Cells.
  • The non-haters welcome this as a normal, harmless game by Konami. They do not see the questionable practices done by Konami in the past and are not too bothered with the lower quality compared to Dead Cells, having already lowered their standards to prevent disappointment thanks to Konami's big controversy reducing their manpower.

Hopefully it's short enough, to the point, and even less natter than my previous write up. (There is an actual rewrite of the bullet points) I'd reserve my actual opinion on the game AND company since this is not the place for doing so (not to mention, I've been banned from the VG forums).

bumping

Hmmm let me give it a shot, because I think this is how I cope when I actually SEE such bashing. Why I hate it, I dunno.

• Bile Fascination: This game earned the reputation of being one of the worst RPGs ever due to so many glaring flaws (ranging from poor mechanics to an underwhelming story and cast). To the point that it's mostly considered a collector's item for the Playstation 3, because some gamers just want to find out how bad the flaws can ruin the game.

I'm not sure if I get the point across... I don't play the game myself. But I do try to simplify the words that sounded too bash-y.

Edited by ChrisX on Mar 16th 2024 at 2:50:11 AM

Much better, I implemented it now.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13327578050A72722200&page=525#comment-13103

Then entry spends too long talking about the company and not the game. I'm sure there are those who refuse to touch the new game out of principle because it's Konami, but that's not Broken Base (it would be Overshadowed by Controversy, though applying to the Konami as a whole rather than any one game). What is it about the game itself that some don't like? It should go something like:

• Broken Base: While many fans welcomed the release of Undying Moon, others consider it unworthy because...

Let's see if we take out the anti-Kon factors. At most, the complains are just how "It's an inferior Dead Cells clone." But otherwise, there's none of the things they're usually accused for.

However, it tends to be taken out of proportion by the fandom to just remind us "Konami bad". I understand that the controversy happened and they could be culpable and those who refused to touch the games out of principle (or swearing eternal hatred) have their understandable justifications. But they're in such a position that people are so hell bent about constantly reminding us all about how bad they are, and any neutral-thing will be considered Righting Great Wrongs. Not sure if that's a good thing for a cleaner, non-biased writing, even if it's YMMV.

(Any further is just personal issue, so let's not go there...)

Anyway, if it doesn't count as a Broken Base, I'm willing to have the entry removed completely (and admit it's my fault for bringing it up in the first place). I'm also open to suggestions like even another revamp without even mentioning Konami's issue (which may be applied to some other YMMV entries in the Konami games).

What will it be?

Edited by ChrisX on Mar 16th 2024 at 5:12:30 PM

I found this bizzare example on YMMV.Motorstorm:

• The Problem with Licensed Games: In case you were unaware that Motorstorm R.C. was brought to you by Scion, the loading screens will gladly remind you that "MOTORSTORM R.C. WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY SCION AND YOU WOULD BE EXTREMELY COOL IF YOU OWNED A SCION SO YOU SHOULD BUY ONE!" Motorstorm R.C. isn't just brought to you by Scion, its also a Motorstorm game In Name Only. Also the Scion handles better than all the unlicensed Expy cars... I wonder why.
  • By the game design that's averted: all vehicles from a class should have the same speed and handling, only changing hitboxes and little nuances.

It runs afoul of example indentation, policy against first-person writing, and the example clearly speaks for the troper who added it instead of being a general summary of the fans' criticisms. Also, YMMV cannot be played with.

I don't know what to suggest, other than a straight cut.

Also the game itself has a 78 on Metacritic, it was positively received by most critics.