Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
I see the Awesomeness.
I'd say that, at a minimum, some level of martial prowess must be present for a character to be badass. Now, it's entirely possible for someone without martial prowess to notice a Badass Indicator and try to invoke it (Lelouch of Code Geass comes to mind, he's a hardcore Guile Hero, but is a total push over in combat).
Fight smart, not fair.
Rabid Fujoshi
Actually, I like Treblain's definition, though I'll make a few changes: "A badass is a character who repeatedly performs extreme and often improbable actions, especially fighting, without breaking suspension of disbelief, and is admirable for this."
I think 'over-the-top' is a bit much and I do think fighting has something to do with it.
edited 10th Jan '12 1:36:30 AM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Can we shelve the "what is a badass?" debate for later and move on? Right now, we seem to have come to the following conclusion about the current set of tropes being discussed:
Is everyone on board with this?
That One Guy
I see the Awesomeness.
Tropes moved.
Next batch:
- Badass Automaton: It clanks, it grinds, or it whirs when it moves. Doesn't mean that it can't beat the shit out of you. (Badass+trait, only real trope that might be pulled out is a stereotypical badass robot)
- Badass Back: When someone is so badass they dropped your ass without turning around. (Badass establishment moment)
- Offhand Backhand: Bonus points if they didn't even notice you were there. (same as above)
- Badass Bandolier: A utilitarian badass accessory worn so a badass can keep their tools of the trade handy. (Sounds like a marker, then again, I've seen them just as often on mooks, it strikes me as more of a stock clothing prop)
- Badass Baritone: Nothing screams intimidating than a deep voice. (maaaaaaaaaaaybe an indicator. Will need a check of examples to see how many of them are the deep menacing Vader style voice, or if they're just a badass with a deep voice. That said, it strikes me as a possible indicator since a great deal of badasses like to growl instead of talk)
That One Guy
Not sure about the bandolier one, for the reason you mentioned. It doesn't really indicate "badass"-ness.
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Rabid Fujoshi
I could see Badass Automaton harvested for "robots and golems built to fight people' but other than that, not a trope. Cut (or fix).
Badass Back, I feel like it needs a rename. Offhand Backhand keep. Badass Bandolier I could go either way, whether it's a specific badass indicator or just a stock prop.
Badass Baritone I think should be something like "Deeper voice means tougher/manlier guy", more of a sliding scale and not a character trope, it's an indicator trope. So I say fix.
edited 10th Jan '12 9:07:40 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
That One Guy
Actually, those are better ideas. Supporting all of this ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
.
I'd say Badass Automaton is not a trope. The other four are markers at best. I can't really say for the latter two as my general tastes in media doesn't run across either much.
Rabid Fujoshi
Badass Automaton becomes like Death Bot or something. Or do we already have something like that? Ah, we have Killer Robot. Might be superfluous then. Although 'humanoid fighting robot' might be a trope of it's own, because logically it's silly. I doubt humanoid is really the best form for a death machine. And again there's the possible expansion to include golems and homunculi and such. If we can find a way to salvage a decent amount of it, then cut.
edited 10th Jan '12 9:47:06 PM by NoirGrimoir
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
That One Guy
Killer Robot seems like it could cover a lot of it, yeah.
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Badass Automaton isn't a trope, all others are indicators, though some might need a little reworking.
I see the Awesomeness.
Rabid Fujoshi
I say move to cut. If there's a trope int here it'll be easier just running the new one through YKTTW than messing with the old page.
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
I see the Awesomeness.
Do we want to separate props from events?
Fight smart, not fair.
Redirecting Badass Automaton to Killer Robot would probably be easier than outright cutting.
And I'd say merge Badass Back and Offhand Backhand. They get misused for each other all the time, and I'm not sure its a worthwhile distinction.
cannot into space
Agree
I see the Awesomeness.
Support both proposals. Gonna be busy the next days, tag the next person in.
Fight smart, not fair.
Rabid Fujoshi
I could go with that.
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
That One Guy
Supporting the suggestions.
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Deboss is busy. Which index is he pulling these tropes off of? We should keep this going.
That One Guy
- Badass Beard: Their facial hair is shorthand for "Don't mess with me."
- Badass Biker: Nothing says badass better than a Cool Bike.
- Badass Blink: When a cloaking field pauses for badassery to ensue.
- Badass Boast/Pre-Asskicking One-Liner: Every good badass needs a cool line about how dead they are gonna make you.
- Establisher at best
- I don't know. Maybe
- I don't think this is a badass trope
- Establisher
- Establisher
Badass Biker just seems like a Badass X trope. I don't know if it's valid.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
I'm not sure I completely agree on your definition, but I think that's a sign that your other point that we need to clearly define the trope while we're at it is a good one. Otherwise, I think one day Badass is going to end up in the dreaded YMMV ghetto.