Trope Description Improvement Drive

That's what happens when the description starts with "a male regular character meets (and, in some cases, hits on) a stunningly beautiful woman. ... she is in fact a former male classmate (sometimes even a former best friend) who has undergone gender reassignment and come out of it a bombshell"

I pulled out that awful change to Big Bad. Listen, the trope is not necessarily about a character. Nobody had any difficulty with the definition for over a decade. And the writing in the change was awful.

It doesn't sound at all weird to you to suggest something like "in The Day After Tomorrow, the deadly cold weather is the Big Bad"?

Children's Literature says it's for "books aimed at readers under about 14". Middle Grade Literature says it's for "books aimed towards readers that are 9-13".

Middle grade is a fairly new demographic, I'd recommend checking outside sources for verification.

It's hard to draw a line, and the demographic of "tween" is fairly new. Tweens are children, too. Goosebumps and Warrior Cats are on both indexes. Several are on Children's Literature and Young Adult Literature (and therefore should be on Middle Grade Literature).

Not to mention that the educational state Middle Grade is primarily an American thing that doesn't exist for all non-American countries. E.g. over here in England we just have Primary School and then Secondary School.

And some issues with Middle Grade Literature have been brought up here.

I've never heard of Middle Grade as an American. It's Children's for 12~ and under then Young Adult for 13-??. It's fairly gray where YA starts though as many tween-aimed books are YA.

The problem is the descriptions are contradictory. It's stated that Children's Literature is below Middle Grade Literature, yet the two have overlapping ages mentioned.

Edited by Pichu-kun on May 3rd 2019 at 5:34:50 AM

Like I said, it's fairly new. Newer than Young Adult and Teen. I expect them to be overlapping, but I'm not personally clear on "exact" age ranges used by the publishing industry.

How to crosswick AIcronym with Robot Names?

IúkaSylvie edit-wars over description of Raven Hair, Ivory Skin.

They changed one part of the description. From this:

to this:

I changed the second line to this:

Then Iuka Sylvie added fanservise back again:

I don't think fanservice is really needed there. This character is supposed to be beautiful, not necessarily heavily sexualized or presented in titillating situations.

(Also, I admit I'm annoyed that Iuka Sylvie added it back without discussing it first.)

Opinions?

Agreed that Beauty is different from Sexy.

Not sure of the precise connection, but they're both... traits people want, usually?

Historical Gender Flip was launched very recently, and I'm rather torn over its inclusion of examples that do not involve a Historical Domain Character, like King Arthur ^note long story short, the general consensus is that he's Loosely Based On A True Story and even straight up fictitious/mythical figures (e.g. Frankenstein's Monster and the Greek goddess Artemis), just because the legends/myths are treated as actual "history" in-universe (that is, they actually happened, but as time went by humans came to believe that they were just myths rather than real).

Edited by MarqFJA on May 4th 2019 at 7:29:11 PM

A.I.-cronym also needs to crosswick with Fun with Acronyms and Meaningful Name?

Edited by Malady on May 4th 2019 at 12:36:29 PM

So, when putting an example under Middle Grade Literature, should it also be put under Children's Literature?

Public Domain Character in general counts as long as they're considered "historical/old"

(I'm not just talking about a certain series of works, either)

That seems... very questionable.

Edited by MarqFJA on May 6th 2019 at 8:56:42 PM

I meant to say "PDC counts for Historical Gender Flip".

PDC might also count for things like Beethoven Was an Alien Spy or Julius Beethoven da Vinci.

Can Brother–Sister Incest be changed to "Sibling Incest"?

Edited by MrCanoehead on May 7th 2019 at 7:02:00 AM

seconding. there's no real reason for it to be gender-specific.

The Trope Repair Shop is the place to rename tropes. And in general tropes don't get renamed unless there's evidence that the name contributes to misuse.

I agree that it'd be better, but we don't change trope names just because a new one is better; the old one has to be inadequate in some way.

From The Generation Gap:

• As Boomers eventually grew up and became parents, this trope lost some of its purpose, especially as Generations X^note Those born between 1964 and 1979, Y^note Born between 1980 and 1993, dubbed as "Millennials" and Z^note Born between 1994 and 2011, dubbed as "Centennials" or the "iGeneration", with older members (born before 2004) being called "Neo-Boomers", and those born after 2001 being referred as the "Homeland (or 9/11) Generation" adopted their liberal views on social issues.

This isn't right. I've seen people tweak the millenial era here and there, but the general consensus seems to be it's 1980/1981/1982 to 1996/1997/1998/1999. The "9/11 Generation", aka Generation Z, is 1999/2000-201?.

Edited by Pichu-kun on May 9th 2019 at 10:02:59 AM

@4tell0life4: That's just it: I don't comprehend the reasoning behind considering "Public Domain Character is genderflipped" a distinct trope from Gender Flip. Splitting off "Gender Flip of Historical Domain Character" makes sense because barring the rare exception, we have generally reliable evidence of what sex any given historical figure had been (nobody could seriously argue that, say, Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus was a woman; Romans weren't shy about admitting that they had an empress regnant on the rare occasions they had one, for one).

Edited by MarqFJA on May 9th 2019 at 5:26:09 PM

"I don't comprehend the reasoning behind considering "Public-Domain Character is genderflipped" a distinct trope from Gender Flip."

Because PDC by their nature would be well known enough by the masses as the characters get used in other works and media, including their genders.

"we have generally reliable evidence of what sex any given historical figure had been"

Implying that the same cannot be said for Public Domain Character?