Rename: The Mario

Not that I'm for a rename, but I think a compromise would be something like Mario Is Exceptionally Balanced. Keeps the Mario reference (and its alphabetical listing), and gets across the idea that it is about a balanced character and that that is his strength.

EDIT: Not that it would fix the fact that it seems to be a Mario-specific thing, not a gameplay trope. But again, I like the name as it is.

edited 22nd Jul '11 2:48:44 PM by ArtemisStrong

Get a slant at this glossary of Pulp Detective terms. It rates. Pipe that?

It is a gameplay trope. It's the balanced character in a game, in contrast to things like the Mighty Glacier, and doesn't only have to be Mario himself.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

You know, Nakama just got renamed without misuse because the title was less specific than the trope it was being used for. Which is...exactly what's going on with The Mario.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

I still would like Middle Mario as a rename, as it at least adds a qualifier.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Meh. Either don't change it at all, or remove the reference entirely.

This.

I agree. It seems like any attempt to keep Mario in the title, aside from not renaming, would just make it more unclear.

No, that's inaccurate. It's true that we rename without misuse all the time; if a trope has low numbers, or if its growth is stagnating, or if it shares a name with a work, those are all important and relevant considerations. Proving misuse, however, is the best way to show that a name without those problems (like The Mario) is broken and needs a rename. And it's certainly not objectively bad; it has features that are correlated with bad titles, but that's not the same thing as being objectively bad. It may or may not be bad, but not objectively so. And the criteria for when not to rename are more important, and The Mario meets those so far.

I'm not here to convince anybody that this name is "good". But there's a burden of proof that we need to meet if we want to take action here; so far, the metrics we've tested it on have been showing that it's healthy and doesn't need any repair.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

This is pretty much what the argument is about. Can we point at a title like The Mario and say it is objectively bad? Can we say "it is gibberish to the uninitiated, and it's after a character with many other more well-known traits, and it alienates people who don't care much for Mario", or do we need proof that the above faults are actually perceived by people and driving them away from dealing with this trope or the site?

IMO, that stuff is happening. And even though wicks and inbounds are two of the few reliable measures we do have for how a title is performing, it does not magically make it so that if we can't find the problem in the wicks or the inbounds, it does not exist.

Sadly, "We have this problem I SWEAR" is not much of a strong argument, or at least it is weak enough that "I disagree" is a perfectly good counter-argument. Maybe there is a good way to confirm it one way or the other. I hope so.

edited 22nd Jul '11 6:10:30 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

One way we can see if the name is catching on is if both wicks and inbounds are growing, which they are.

Other than that, what are we supposed to do, poll the internet? Call me crazy, but I don't think that would work.

What we can see from the wicks and inbounds growing is that the wicks and inbounds are growing. "Catching on" is if someone who isn't us is actually, honestly, using that term somewhere. In a perfect world I'd put some required qualification for how many "someone"s and how frequently, but good luck objectively deciding that. I wonder how many we would have found for The Libby if we'd kept searching...

EDIT: I sniffed around and look what was the first thing I found - other people arguing on the internet! I am overcome with awe and a sense of perspective.

edited 22nd Jul '11 6:38:58 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

No, yes but not objectively, yes.

If you don't see how it can't be objective, consider that most of the titles on this wiki are gibberish to anyone who doesn't understand English. Or if you prefer, a less extreme example might be Popularity Polynomial, which needs a background in advanced algebra, or Dénouement, which is a pre-existing term but relatively obscure in the mainstream. We can certainly discuss issues of clarity, but there's inherent subjectivity involved.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Pretty much what Troacctid said. "Objectively bad?" No. "Bad according to trope naming theories accumulated from observing the performance of similarly named tropes?" Yes. However, in order for those theories to have any validity we have to observe all the available data, which includes trend bucking outliers like this(and Nakama, where observation of objective reality lost to opinion).

Usage, wicks and inbounds are the only truly objective meters we have for whether or not a name works. Theory cannot be allowed to supersede practice, or we throw those theories out of balance, losing the very things that gave them value in the first place and replace thought with required rote regulation.

In theory, The Mario shouldn't work. In practice it does. Shall we sacrifice a healthy trope to bring it in line with theory that at best would see it performing the same as it is now? It's right where we want it to be now, why do we want to putz around with it?

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

FWIW, I wouldn't hate The Mario Middle or Mario Middle or something on that theme too much as a name, at it at least specifies something about the nature of the trope.

But why does it need to have Mario's name in the title, if it's not about him?

Because it might placate some people who would never agree to back the change otherwise (though it's not guaranteed), and since this has failed three times already it needs all the help it can get. Ive almost alwqays been able to side with "a small improvement that people can agree on" over "a big change that we can't pass because of a deadlock".

edited 23rd Jul '11 12:18:39 AM by Elle

According to the "yes, we can say it is bad" school of thought, The Mario is a flawed title in a way that neither of those two are.

First, because it qualifies as "gibberish to the uninitiated" more than any of them. "Popularity polynomial" at least has a word in it that says it is about popularity. You're right that "polynomial" requires some background, but given that AFAIK it is not a concept introduced in advanced algebra but in compulsory eighth-grade math... Then again, you have titles like Eigen Plot, which are based on advanced algebra, by using a metaphor that is really stretching it.*

That one just has no excuse.

Dénouement, as you said, is a pre-existing term. We handle these differently. Our responsibility to restrain our vigilante taxonomism*

is diminished in a case like that. We're not in any danger of making something up that will fail to catch on or will present a bad, insular image of the site. If something is actually studied in universities as the official term for anything, we ought to give it a pass. When we teach people about Dénouement, we are educating them and giving them a tool to communicate with other people, even professionals, who have similar interests. When we are teaching them about The Mario... Not so much.

Second, because unlike them, it is also nonsense to the initiated. Imagine a world where a zebra crossing is just called a "Zebra", and when kids ask why it's called that, we tell them "oh, because Zebras might ostensibly cross it". These children will have an epic Fridge Logic moment when they grow up, don't you think? It fails to make sense in an objective way that has nothing to do with inbounds or what-have-you. It just does not follow. Wherever the inbounds are coming from, they cannot make this title make sense any more than they can cause a triangle to have four sides.

Now, the English Language has lots and lots of examples of this happening and actually creating new words that work - go look up the etymology of "Pirate", or rather the lack thereof. But for better or worse we're stuck with pirates, and the tens of millions of people who know what they are and have known for centuries. The Mario is something we made up a few years ago and we have, what, at tops a few thousand people who actually remember what we told them it is supposed to mean, and why. In language scale, that's a bit of dust. Certainly less than the number of people who know what a Polynomial is.

edited 14th Jan '12 8:50:10 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

^ From Ancient Greek "peira", “trial, attempt, plot”. say the internet.

Yep. And that makes close to zero sense. Hence the "lack thereof".

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

Except I could then go on to argue that The Mario does make sense to the initiated; it makes an allusion to a prominent defining trait of a character they're familiar with (because they're initiated). And to the uninitiated, it's a name, which helps them get that it applies to characters. It's successfully made a connection and resonated with a lot of people. It's not misleading or counterintuitive, it's not being hindered by opacity, and it's backed up by a strong description, a strong image, a strong laconic, and strong redirects, all of which help shore up its weaknesses.

But that's not a productive argument to have, because, again, it all comes down to subjective judgements.

I'm not saying The Mario is a good name. If the trope came up in YKTTW tomorrow with that name I'd shoot it down in a heartbeat. What it is is a trope that's survived to be healthy and happy (according to the evidence we've collected so far) in spite of a subpar title.

It's not our business to hunt down healthy tropes just cuz we don't like their names. We're here to pick off the weak and the sick. But, uh, I sort of said that already, so...well anyway, point is, if you want to get something changed here, stop trying to make us hate the name and start checking wicks instead.

edited 23rd Jul '11 2:59:35 AM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Usage, wicks and inbounds are the only truly objective meters we have for whether or not a name works.

But they are not complete or inerring metres. Wicks, for instance, do not show the number of wicks not created because the name was immemorable or obscure.

You're acknowledging the name is bad. If that can be accepted, then why not take this chance to improve it?

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

Okay, here goes nothing... I present:

The Mario Analysis Project

[insert a 30-second-long montage of short Mario game snippets set to Ode To Joy here. At 12:14:01, there is an almost-subliminal still of me cutting the wings off a bumblebee.]

In checks like these there's usually a lot of subjectivity that comes into play. Is it "meh, only 10 percent misuse" or "OMG, 10% misuse!!!"? Are 1,000 inbounds okay or weak? Two analyses of the exact same stats can look completely different based on the spin you put on them.

Fortunately in this case, we have a good sample of peer Competitive Balance tropes we can compare to: Fragile Speedster, Game-Breaker, Glass Cannon, Lightning Bruiser, Mighty Glacier, Squishy Wizard and Stone Wall. The Mario will be judged against these in every criterion*

, and that way we can get a feeling of where it stands that doesn't depend on hand waving. Stuff that was found previously will be included for the sake of completion.

Okay then...

Wicks

Quantity:

The Mario - 721
Fragile Speedster - 1,239
Game-Breaker - 2,841
Glass Cannon - 1,065
Lightning Bruiser - 1,346
Mighty Glacier - 1,292
Squishy Wizard - 1,132
Stone Wall - 431

Stone Wall is obviously not thriving, for whatever reason. Similarly, Game-Breaker is off the scale. Clearly those two are not on in the same ballpark as the rest. It would be fair to compare The Mario to the other five as a reasonable standard it should live up to; Stone Wall and Game-Breaker will be mainly points of comparison for "trope not thriving" and "trope very much thriving". From now on The Mario plus the five we're comparing it to will be referred to as the sample.

The average wick count of the sample is 1132.33 and the standard deviation is 206.666. Therefore, the wick count on The Mario is two standard deviations below the mean. That's comparable to scoring a 300 on the SAT. If you asked me before I viewed these stats what to set as the bar for disuse, I would have probably told you one standard deviation below the mean. That will teach me to say "not dramatic" before doing the math.

Quality:

I went to check 27 (square root of number of wicks) at random. IIRC we need 50, but please, have mercy on my soul. Look, I analyzed each one with a little paragraph and all.

Free Space - Man, why did I have to fall on this one first? It's going to make this check look doctored. It's horribly incorrect. The description says the opposite of what the trope means, with flying colors. Ouch.

Attack! Attack! Attack! - I can't tell. It's a pothole, not an example, so it's alright that it doesn't have any explanation for how it applies. It says "The Scrapper" from City Of Heroes is an example. I haven't played that, so I can't tell.

Children Of Mana - X Just X

Dragonball - Pothole from "Ascended Super Sayian". Well... the trope is about a character (says so right there in the first sentence), and this is not a character but some transformation. Still, Tropes Are Flexible. If this transformation functions like The Mario opposite other transformations or something, this is excusable. Don't know enough about the work to tell.

Even Better Sequel - No clue who it's referring to. It's like X Just X, without the X. Shrug. Clearly not the title's fault, at any rate, though this is a classic case where a more descriptive title would have made the example much more readable. I'm not going to count it as anything.

Gang of Hats - Incorrect. It's potholed from "fairly generic street gangers". That's another trope.

Glory Of Heracles - Correct ("Main character's stats are good, but never the best")

Hard Work Hardly Works - "You'll find just as many high level human wizards around as elves, possibly even more because humans are The Mario and optimize easily." Since Humans Are Average, I don't need to even check which work it is to know that this is in all probability correct.

Husky Russkie - "Inverted in the Saturday Night Slam Masters games, where Russian Biff Slamkovich, a former sparring partner of Zangief's, is The Mario; the British-born Giant Titanic Tim stands over two feet taller than him." I call incorrect. "Average in height" is not this trope. "Average in everything" is this trope.

Killing Floor - "The Mario: The Commando perk could qualify for this, due to it granting bonuses to the versatile automatic weapons, among them the devastating SCAR. It also grants you the ability to see your enemies' health and to easily spot cloaked Stalkers - and, for that matter, the Patriarch. Lastly, it allows ZED time extensions and makes reloading for all weapons faster." Okay, on first sight this was incorrect, but the implicit "as opposed to other perks, which are more specialized" that I see now can probably save this. Calling off the "incorrect" here.

Magikarp Power - Potholed from "Jack of all trades". Thanks for making my work easy, potholing troper person. Correct

Metal Slug - Seems Correct to me.

Multiple Demographic Appeal - Potholed from "soldier". Not familiar enough with the work to tell.

Ninety Nine Nights - X Just X

Owen Hart - "Lightning Bruiser / The Mario: A great high-flyer, sensational technical wrestler and a pretty good brawler who could throw out amazing power suplexes. Possibly one of the most well-rounded wrestlers ever." Incorrect. His stats are "great", "sensational", "pretty good" and "amazing". You already have the right trope for that in there, Mr. Troper Person. No need to shoehorn.

Red-Headed Hero - X Just X

Secret Of The Stars - X Just X

Tell Me How You Fight - Correct (contrasted with 3 more specialized characters)

The King Of Dragons - Correct (potholed from "well-rounded character")

The Casanova - Oblique pothole. Don't know the work, can't tell.

There Is No Kill Like Overkill - ditto.

Truncated Power Rangers - HUH. Okay, based on what I know about how Power Rangers works and who these characters are, there is no way in hell this wick can be correct. If it is, I will ceremoniously slap myself in the face. When did this trope develop an option to have a "Luigi", anyway? Incorrect

Too Human - Context telegraphs that this is correct. Contrasted with the rest of the balance tropes and all.

The Smurfette Principle - Correct

The Seven Basic Plots - Correct

20 Minutes into the Future - Misleading but correct. "Battle Tanx and its sequel, released in 1999, set in 2001 and 2006 respectively. Tanks in-game are certainly more advanced than in real life; the real-world M1 Abrams is The Mario to things such as hovering tanks or tanks with laser cannons." This makes it seem like The Mario is something that becomes obsolete. I looked it up and the trope does apply.

Undercover Cops - X Just X

Okay, so out of 27 wicks we have:
Correct - 10
Can't tell - 7
X Just X - 5
Incorrect - 5

That's... You know something? At this point I am starting to get very suspicious of wick checks, in general. How is it that when people looked into this in the past they "found" it was working perfectly fine, and now when I look into it, I "find" evidence for around 18.5% misuse? Was I doing it wrong? Were they doing it wrong? What gives?

Inbounds

The Mario - 2, 368

Fragile Speedster - 1, 549
Glass Cannon - 3, 697
Lightning Bruiser - 1, 260
Mighty Glacier - 1, 211
Squishy Wizard - 2, 865

Analyzing the raw number similarly to the wicks, we have that the mean of the sample is ~1976. The standard deviation is ~1100. Therefore, in terms of inbounds, The Mario is 0.356ths of a standard deviation above the mean. Certainly it's no "OMG awesome" outlier, but it's above average by a nice little margin, so in terms of inbound quantity it's doing more than well enough compared to the standard set by the five other tropes. About the best argument for renaming that could be put forth based on the above is that if it gets a clearer name it might start bringing in as much inbounds as, say, Glass Cannon, but that's purely conjecture.

Catching-on-o-meter:

Okay, this is the part we usually don't do...

What we look into here is how much The Mario has actually caught on, relatively to its peers. Are those inbounds registering within the collective consciousness? To what extent are people actually, really, calling characters like this The Mario?

The first 3 pages of Google search give us:

Fragile Speedster:

• "Meanwhile, the fragile-speedster is someone who relies on dexterity to make-up for the lack of strength, endurance, and range..." - forums.screwattack.com

• "-Fragile Speedster: Fast on the attack and defensively agile, but can't withstand or inflict much damage or both. ..." - s4.invisionfree.com

• "I like the fragile speedster myself, I like speed, ... chance that at least one if not most Fragile Speedster will be of the female gender ..." - www.escapistmagazine.com

• "First of all, a glass-cannon is someone who relies on ranged splash-damage, while the fragile-speedster relies on hit-and-run ..." - forums.gametrailers.com

• "Mostly the insistence on additional proficiencies and making Swordmasters Fragile Speedster only. Everything past that initial complaint is ..." - forums.feplanet.net

• "He's the fragile speedster and looks exactly like Roxas of KHII. His first world is Dwarf Woodland, the location in the movie Snow White. ..." - www.youtube.com

• "Finally the fragile speedster Assassin is capable of invisibility and one-hit backstab kills, but can't take a hit at all. The mechanics of the game are an ..." - orionnerds.com

• "THIEF IS SUPPOSED TO BE A FRAGILE SPEEDSTER WHY DOES FREAKING DAGGER + X ATTACK = HURR DURR SLOWER AND CLUNKIER THAN PLATE ARMOR ZANBATO ..." - dfosource.com

• "... but is underpowered to begin with, against Fox, who has high speed and ridiculous priority and power for his Fragile Speedster status. ..." - youtube.com

• "The Omega idea I had is one thing, but a Glass Cannon form, Mighty Glacier form, Fragile Speedster form or a Flying form? Broken? ..." - gamespot.com

• " Fragile speedster. These guys are made to go in, capture bases, ... Advances that promote this:Pretty much the same as fragile speedster, ... " - aeriagames.com

• "Rogue - The Assassin: A fragile speedster that specializes in singling out a target for quick elimination. This, of course, implies that ... " - forum.us.runesofmagic.com

• "For a new Order pilot, 'tis ship is probably the best choice, since it's a lot more forgiving than the fragile speedster Bastet. ..." - discoverygc.com

• "Even though she's supposed to be a Gundam, or a Weissritter from SRW: Original Generations, she's not really a Fragile Speedster anymore. ..." - forums.spacebattle.com

Glass Cannon:

• "Refers to a person, weapon, or vehicle which has a high output, but a low defense, life, durability, etc." - urbandictionary.com

• "The Glass Cannon is a combat role of someone who can really dish it out, but can't take it. As the name suggests, devestating offensive power, ..." - arcana.wikidot.com

• "Glass Cannon is a term used to describe a career/class or archetype which deals ... Warhammer's best examples of a glass cannon are the Bright Wizard and ... " - warhammeronline.wikia.com

• BONUS: A youtube clip demonstrating a strategy where Mario is being used as a Glass Cannon, and explicitly referred to as such.

• "This page is about the generic RPG term, "glass cannon. ... The term "glass cannon" refers to a character who deals out huge damage but is ... " - diablowiki.net

• "Basically guys i was wondering what the true Glass cannon mage setup was, ie super high damage but next to no defence. at the moment im ... " - forums.riftgame.com

• "To those who don't know what a glass cannon is, it's a term used for characters who possess a significant amount of attack power, ..." - www.youtube.com [continues to describe rest of trope, obviously]

Lightning Bruiser:

• "One canon's Lightning Bruiser is a Joke Character for another canon and vice versa for example. Here are the ones listed below off of ..." - s4.invisionfree.com

• "I'm not sure where Lightning Bruiser would apply (maybe the same as Super Speed? ... Perhaps a Skirmish-like ability on Lightning Bruiser? ..." - brilliantgameologists.com

• "Lightning Bruiser - A character who's great in all of the Top 3 Stats: Offense, Defense, and Speed. - Examples: Albert Wesker in Mv C 3, ... " - allisbrawl.com

• "They DON'T need to add being a Lightning Bruiser to their resume. ... They DON'T need to add being a Lightning Bruiser to their resume. ... " - us.battle.net

• "A really bad situation is averted as Lightning Bruiser Go Seung Yuk [Shun Shin] (Lee Jun Ki/Lee Joon-gi) K Os him before he hurts anyone. ..." - shortoncache.wordpress.com

• "Otherwise, the DPS Guardian would be a woefully unbalanced Lightning Bruiser that could dish it out every bit as well as he took it...and ..." www.swtor.com

• "The weapons arnt the only thing that make Dante a threat, its his lightning bruiser status and additional powers. He can amp up the weapon but he's still ..." - www.killermovies.com

• "Looks like this Lightning Bruiser was updated. Along with Mercy Invincibility after falling down, she has two new attacks: the ground pound ..." - www.youtube.com

• " I'd expect them to be glass cannon + lightning bruiser. High speed, lots of damage, will die to damn near anything. ..." - forum.worldoftanks.com [tut tut tut, Mr. Forum person. That's a contradiction in terms!]

• "I mean even Kal-El's considered a lightning bruiser; as is Robert Reynolds seeing as they blitz people. Then there are the legitimate ..." - lounge.moviecodec.com

• "He doesn't have enough defense to be a Tank, he doesn't have a high enough attack to be a Lightning Bruiser or a Glass Cannon. ..." - www.escapistmagazine.com

• "More than just being a big buff Lightning Bruiser, I believe this is the best way to get the most bang for your buck, because even the ..." - forum.sword-buyers-guide.com

• "he's a lightning bruiser, meaning he has above average everything (except maybe speed) as compared to the mario/jack (Jin) who is average in ... " - www.dustloop.com

Mighty Glacier:

• "For those that don't know, a mighty-glacier is someone that can absorb and dish-out a lot of damage at the cost of speed and range (i.e., ..." - forums.screwattack.com

• "pirataflyer switched in Mighty Glacier (lvl 100 Donphan ?). ... Mighty Glacier's leftovers restored its health a little! Mighty Glacier restored 6% of its ..." - freetexthost.com [Someone named their mon after our trope.]

Okay, that's nice, but a lot of the results were waxing poetical about actual "mighty glaciers". So let's try "Mighty Glacier" +Character and see what comes up on the first 3 pages of that:

• "4 Mar 2011 – Mighty Glacier - A character who's very defensive and has great strength, but lacks the speed needed to land those powerful attacks easily. ..." - allisfighter.com

• "Mighty Glacier: Powerful but slow. Character like Ganondorf from SSBM, Akuma from SF. Cheap Ass Game Breaker: Guy who's so strong that ... " - escapistmagazine.com

• "Give it P=3 S=1 D=2 or P=2 S=1 D=3, the character's a Mighty Glacier. Those who have P=2 S=3 D=1 take the role of the Glass Cannon. ... " - mugengenesis.freeforums.org

• "Anyway, this character is meant to be a Mighty Glacier type that uses Hyper mode items to increase it's defensive and offensive power, but still has access ..." - demonssouls.wikidots.com

• "the proper term for a weak attack character with high defense is stone wall. mighty glacier is high attack and defense but low speed. ..." - gamespot.com [Hurray! More love for Stone Wall!]

• "When did this thread become a Character vs. Character thread? ..... I prefer the mighty-glacier approach. Strong, but slow. ... " - www.bumbleking.com

• "soemtimes some of us associate particular character classes with a particular ... Mighty Glacier, a massive man of 7 feet or taller, with a bulky buff build ... " - community.wizards.com

• "Infinite Stratos Character Creation and Fanfiction Discussion ... He's more like a mighty glacier that can dish out quite a lot of damage. ..." - forums.animesuki.com

• "Mighty Glacier - A character who's very defensive and has great strength, but lacks the speed needed to land those powerful attacks easily. ..." - allisbrawl.com

• " No complaining about the character choices. .... Dragoon being a slightly-faster-than-usual Mighty Glacier with an emphasis on Range). ..." - gamefaqs.com

• "A mighty glacier can't use a lightning bruiser's specified weapon. Sometimes weapons are compatible with more then one character, ... " - rpgforumsonline.com

• "And it's not too terribly hard, although it does have Character ... This behemoth of a Mighty Glacier should be destroyed ASAP else its ..." - www.youtube.com

That's better.

Squishy Wizard:

• " I consider last night to be the first when I fully accepted that I'm a squishy wizard player in group play with my friends. " - spontaneousderivation.com

• " By Squishy Wizard the Shalore Archmage level 2 ..... Poison vine hits Squishy Wizard for 6 nature damage. Poison vine hits Squishy Wizard ... " - blog.te4.com [someone named their character after our trope.]

• "Can you please cite an example of this archetypal, iconic fantasy trope of the squishy wizard who can cast a big day-saving/battle-changing ... " - community.wizards.com

• "Let me put it this way, we can troll people better if they think we"re a squishy wizard, they come to dice us up, and we punch the in the face while ..." - forums.spacebattles.com

• "... but giving mana regeneration to the robe and then adding a foot item for a complete set would make a 'squishy wizard' possible, ... " - terrariaonline.com

• "It's a lot like in a RPG, where the you can't expect the designated tank to sling spells around, and you can't expect the squishy wizard to act as ... " - gamespot.com

• "-Squishy Wizard: Weak, slow, or/and frail. Features some special characteristic or ability that makes ... Basically, a less Squishy wizard. ... " - s4.invisionfree.com

• "His AC (around 12th level) was the worst in the party (even behind the wizard) but the bad guys would go for the 'squishy' wizard. ... " - paizo.com

• "Considering he was a squishy wizard character in the first game and presumably in the second game, and she was the "tank" class in the first game. ... " - social.bioware.com

• "... highest damage on crystal and person every time and basically murdered people constantly. And she was a "squishy" wizard at that time. ... " - aeriagames.com

• "Class Archtype: Squishy wizard. Color: Blue Gender: Male usually. Race: Elf Items: Staff of Magic (+3 to Magic rolls) Atk(+3 Int 3d3dmg) ..." - bay12forums.com

• "Since Squishy Wizards tend to focus on powerful offensive attack spells ("Nuking"), they are also contrasted by The Medic, a form of Squishy Wizard who ..." - facepunch.com

...

...

The Mario:

...

Squat. Nothing in the first 3 pages.

Well, all right. Lots and lots of results that are about THE Mario, in the general context. Obviously he'll overshadow any use of this trope, even with a "the" and quotations marks and everything. Let's try to fish for this term catching on like we did with Mighty Glacier. Let's see:

The Mario +character:

Okay. Still squat. Finding that stuff is really problematic. Let's try:

The Mario +balanced +character:

• "as a protagonist figure and/or main balanced character in many genres of games; ..." - super-smash-bros.wikia.com's page about Mario

• "As with most games, he is seen as a balanced character with balanced stats. ... Games in the Mario series are constantly redefining their own standards, ..." - giantbomb.com's page about Mario

• "Mario (マリオ) is a fictional character and the protagonist of .... and more, though in the Mario sports titles however, he has full speech capabilities. ... Mario is typically the most balanced character in classes such as weight, ... " - Wikipedia's [sandbox version] page about Mario

• "He is a balanced character between batting, pitching, fielding, and speed. ... Donkey Kong has made several appearances throughout the Mario series. ... " - supercheats.com, talking about Mario

• " Being a Balanced character, he's pretty good at everything. ... but stays in the air for longer than the Mario bros. do when they use their ... " - Gamefaqs.com, talking about how another character is more of The Mario than Mario is

• "He is probably the most well-balanced character in the game, with moderate attack and ... For the fertilizer, walk along the Mario's ultimate weapon. ... " - oocities.org, talking about Mario

• "The Mario series of video games has sold more than 193 million units, .... Mario is typically the most balanced character in classes such as weight, speed, ... " - bookrags.com, talking about Mario

• ". of Mario Golf, Mario would always be the most balanced character. ... Differences from origional: This only having the mario characters ... " - mariocomputergames.net

• "Mario is a balanced character who's easy to learn, and Bowser is the slowest character in the game. Take advantage of the situation and pelt Bowser with ..." - www.neoseeker.com, talking about Mario

• "The Mario cyclone is still there, just press Down and A. ..... Mario is the most well balanced character in the game and that doesn't change in Brawl. ... " - youtube.com, talking about Mario

• "Mario is a well-balanced character, good in almost any situation. ..... through the door in the Rec Room with an 8 on it and jump into the Mario painting. ... " - lemmykoopa.netfirms.com, talking about Mario

• "... exception of Mario Golf, Mario would always be the most balanced character. .... enemy characters became permanent cast members in the Mario echelon. ... " - amazon.com, talking about Mario

And yes, somewhere in there, you do have:

• " ... the standard playable character whose attributes are completely balanced, making him or ... He's the Mario of the Street Fighter series. ... " - urbandictionary.com (HURRAY!!)

About the polling the internet mentioned earlier- we just polled the internet and asked it, "What do you think of when I say The Mario? What kind of character is The Mario?" Its answer: First and foremost, Mario. Mario is The Mario. Then we went, "Okay, but you know, a character who is like Mario?" And it went, "Well, Mario is like Mario!" and we went, "OKAY, but you know, a BALANCED character? Like Mario?" and it went, "Well obviously, MARIO fits the bill!", on and on for pages.

If you want anyone else being The Mario, you are going to need to dig deeper. It may be there somewhere, but it's buried under an awful lot of noise.

This concludes my rambling. Now we can go ahead and vote to keep it.

edited 23rd Jul '11 8:29:53 AM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

... You can have a cookie now. Okay, 18.5% misuse and technically underperforming compared to its peers plus a bad name. That's grounds for a crowner with actual arguments attached to it unlike before.

The name doesn't meet our guidelines for picking a good name. That's not the same thing as being a bad name. It just means it's very likely to be a bad name. It just so happens that by every metric we've got, The Mario beat the odds.

Also, "improving it" would involve changing 700 wicks and telling people to stop using an established trope name for no other reason than that it offends some forumgoers' delicate sensibilities.