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Headscratchers / Re:CREATORS

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Fictional universes and other fridge logic into the real world

  • What will happen if MUP or somebody decides on bringing a character from a Mons series such as Pokemon, Digimon, Shin Megami Tensei, Naru Taru, Monster Rancher, Alien Dice or any types of these shows.
  • If a Kaijuu was brought to the real world, how it is going to adapt in it and other Fridge Logic questions.
  • Say if a Player Character was brought out to the real world and decides on using it powers?
    • They'd just have the personality and moveset from the version they were lifted from. If it's the game itself, they'd probably have the hints of personality already provided in the game (depending on how character-heavy the game's plot is) and its bonus materials, or might just end up with whatever the code defaulted to if the player didn't choose already. That's not even counting which adaptations the game has and how canon those count towards the main product. Conversely, if the character runs on O.C. Stand-in logic, their interactions with the real world will be more like them figuring out their personality and powers for the first time, since unlike Altair, whose powers can be decided by fanon, a character who is canonically a Blank Slate for the player to fill in would be limited to any of the powers he can get in the game, though with no knowledge to use them.
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  • How does a character whose Medium Awareness is written into the story of their world react to the creator who gave them that knowledge? Better yet, how does a character from a world with No Fourth Wall (Gintama or Excel Saga for example) or a serious work of Metafiction fare once they actually reach the other side instead of arguing with the in-story versions of their creators?
  • It has been established that characters from different continuities or fanon are treated essentially as separate universes. What is treated as canon to the character if the series in question is, say, an ongoing comic book? Depending on when the character is taken out, there would be multiple different writers working on that version of the character in different series set in that world, each with a different mindset of what is canon to that character's story or not. How limited would that particular character be? Conversely, how unlimited, given the sheer number of decades of canon they have to work with, the whole Running the Asylum situation with certain comics and the fact that Altair can use as many writer canons as she wants?


  • In episode 4 Meteora goes to an internet cafe of sorts to play all night the game she comes from, to better understand her purpose in both her fictional world and the real one after learning of her creator's demise. The problem is: how could anyone play a whole single-player RPG in the space of a single night? Not only the JRPG genre has a reputation for their bloated and padded-out lengths, but it's pointed out that Meteora's character only appears at the very final save point before the Final Boss, meaning that she had to play the game until the very end, not just play a couple hours and call it a day. On top of that, she comes from a fantasy universe with no concept of video games, meaning that she had to learn how to play a game first! Unless the jump from fiction to reality made her an Instant Expert, just like Seleija with cars. Then again, her info dumps never explicitly mention this possibility, so...
    • She's a mage and she does mention that even if she's really bad at offensive spells, she doesn't mention a word about any other purpose spells in her disposal. The odds for her having a time-manipulation spell somewhere to either create a magic room where time moves slower than reality's time is not that unlikely, especially considering that she's also in charge of a giant library in her world and way wiser for her age than she should be. The odds for her having a time spell in order to read through all of her books in shorter amounts of time while taking her time to read them is highly likely the case. Only this time, it got used for a video-game, which would fit like a glove for that task.
    • However, this somehow goes against what she herself said (in that same episode even, IIRC) about not tampering too much with the fabric of reality by using abilities that go against the physics and logic of the gods' world. Also, if she really had access to such a powerful spell it would be pretty selfish of her to use it just for such purpose, and not to help the others.
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    • It wouldn't go against what she said if (and only if she has a time spell) she kept the effects solely to herself and the room she was in. To make such a spell actually "useful", she would have to use it akin to DIO's "The World", which would definitely mess the world up on a global scale if she ever did that. Her keeping the time-alteration to herself and a tiny space around her, would make far less damage as reality itself would still be ticking while she's gone. Nothing selfish about that.
    • It's actually quite possible to play an entire JRPG in the time span she wanted to. Remember, Meteora said she wanted to be by herself for an entire day, not just one night. People can clear games, even thoroughly, in less than 24 hours. Additionally, not only is Meteora VERY intelligent, but she also clearly had a walkthrough and/or guide for the game too.
  • Rui's creator notices that something wrong is happening to his TV screen, and brings it out of his home, just seconds before Rui and his Humongous Mecha appear out of it. Sure, if it materialized on the spot it would have destroyed his home and we wouldn't have had the scene of the JSDF besieging his home with the Created in it... but who in the real world takes away with him a object that looks like it's about to explode and not just get the hell out of there? Also, speaking of the mecha, where do they hide it when it is not needed?
  • How do Magane's powers work? I understand it's essentially using the logical conclusion of contradictory lies to reality warp, but I haven't been able to follow the dialogue to understand what the process ends up being. What were the lies, and then what was the contradiction used to become truth?
    • It's quite simple actually. Think of her like a djinn, a cosmic force capable to do amazing things but utterly powerless unless a second person gets involved and a case "Materia vs Anti-materia" meeting each other. Her power is basically the power of paradoxes. Paradoxes are "loops" which goes on forever unless proven or disapproved. Magane's nature is a "honest liar", meaning that everything she says is a "true lie". If the "True lie" is called a "real lie" by someone else, the loop is broken when her "honest lie" meets a "real lie" (Anti-matter vs matter) which essentially takes each other out in Never the Selves Shall Meet style, leaving only the "True" in her "True lie" behind, essentially turning whatever she said into a "truth", warping the universe in order to make it happen and turn it into a "Truth". It is pretty simple with some analysis.
      • This needs more explanation. Concept of a "true lie" versus a "real lie" must be expanded upon, particularly in relation to episode 10 where Magane steals Hangaku from Yuuya.
      • Think of her as a combo between Elizabeth and the Djinn. Powers strong enough to alter the weave of cosmos, confined by restrictions which demands a second party to invoke them. Does anyone know how a djinn (aka genie) does its tricks? No? Same thing here, only Magane is the one pulling the wishes, she just have to get others to permit them first, that's all. (A reverse djinn in a sense.) Clear enough?
      • Actually it can be simpler. She sets up a scenario where she tells a lie and another person tells the truth. Once those conditions are met, her powers reverse the roles, so she is the one telling the truth and the other person is telling a lie. If someone remains silent, or doesn't call her out on it, then it's ambiguous whether they are saying the truth or not. But if they straight out deny what she's saying then they are telling the Truth, and her powers make it a Lie about her initial Lie, and it inverts on itself.
      • Apperantly the power only works on something that can be defined by words, meaning she can't do things like becoming a god simply because it is too abstract of an idea to defined properly.
  • Why Military Uniform Princess or Altair tried not bothering bringing dangerous characters from other fiction like Chara (Undertale), Slenderman, Tony Montana (Scarface), Booker DeWitt and Elizabeth (Bio Shock Infinite), Sauron (LOTR), Godzilla, Caim (Drakengard), Kratos (God of War), Joker (Batman), Fire Lord Ozai, Pennywise, many characters from JoJo, SpongeBob SquarePants, Nyarlathotep, Alex Mercer (Prototype), Demi-Fiend, Caiaphas Cain, Andrew Detmer (Chronicle), Lusamine (Pokemon), D-Reaper (Digimon)and other dangerous guys? Sure it might be cool and scary to join her army of Created to destroy the world if she had the chance to bring them (and not using just certain characters0
    • Because, barring the copyright nightmare such a thing will present, Altair has limits to how much she can screw with the laws of our reality. Episode 11 had her saying there's only three more characters that the world can carry before she can use her full strength. Which means, she only needs the characters at play to destroy the world. So, no Crisis on Infinite Earths scenario required.
    • It's also implied that Altair is limited (or perhaps has willfully limited herself) to the shows/series's that her Creator (Setsuna) enjoyed.
  • Magane linked her cellphone to Sota's one for the purpose of following and blackmailing him... So why doesn't the Government use Sota's cellphone in order to track Magane down or at least try to find more info on her?
    • "My cell phone is untraceable! Also, your head is about to blow up!" "No way!"
  • What if Blitz shot his Creator in the head?
  • So what exactly happens when a Creation dies in the real world? Are they simply sent back to their stories, or they completely erased from everything?
    • A Creation most likely can't really die since their series still exist independently of them. The best they could experience is likely Death of Personality, as they can still be pulled out from their own series and see the world again. It probably runs on clone logic— the guy you pull out will be from the same place you pulled them out of, but it won't be the guy that died. That's why Elimination Chamber Festival was created; since Altair can't truly be erased, they can trap her in a Canon of their own design.
  • Even if the Princess has as many powers as her fans write for her, there should be some sort of limit on how many she's able to use. Characters like Vocaloids or popular background characters can be given any sort of characterization, but even blank slates like them have a generally agreed-upon fanon of what they are capable of doing. If she can draw on what powers she has from her thousands of authors, then following series logic, she should only be able to draw from the moveset her fans have depicted her with the most. A character with limitless potential is well and good, but it's not feasible that fans would accept a character that has all powers, ever without necessary drawbacks, even if that character was original.
    • You are probably right, but Princess was very good at gaming the scenario and system. Her "basic", presumably most accepted ability is her set of multipurpose blades, and her base strength seems comparable to a magical knight (see Ep 1), which probably represented a very fluffy fan average. However, the protagonists placed her in a scenario where she has to face large robots. She chooses to defend physically, leaving the audience no choice but either to reason she'll be crushed (ending the show pematurely) or she'll have the physical strength. Since she has ill-defined limits, the needs of the plot are prioritized and now she has uber-strength.
    • Her other abilities are in essence Duplicate, Teleport, Banish and Reflect, all fairly common abilities in fantasy. The point then is to be clever in setting precedents. She reveals Teleport and Reflect in the opening and mid-game. It's too early for villain to die, yet she's in danger. The audience wants Altair to have an ace up her sleeve so the show doesn't end, and she delivers. And she was very careful in how she reveals her Banish.
    • But the thing is, Altair's character doesn't follow series logic. She's not tied to any series at all, which is why she's able to have limitless powers in the first place. What makes Altair's character so mind blowing, is not just that she's given powers by her fans, it's that her true strength lies in the fact that due to her origins, her fans and Creators are one in the same. Each person who draws her adds to her moveset. There doesn't have to be an agreed fanon to a character not tied to a story in the first place. Her character is what people accepted, not her powers(and as someone stated earlier, she hid her stronger abilities as well as grew more powerful over time). The only thing holding her back until the end was the world's sense of balance, or "restoration power" as Meteora calls it. The Elimination Chamber Festival was meant to limit her powers by essentially making a story to trap her in and limit her to. And even Altair admitted how genius Meteora's plan was(and that it almost worked, even).
  • When a Creation dies in the real world and disappears into blue pixels, why does the food they've eaten disappear with them? That's real matter from the real world.
    • The last episode proves that the creations can take real world items back with them. Alternatively, it's possible that any food they'd eaten by that point had already been digested.
    • Meteora states very early on that they(the Creations) were "translated" to be basically as human as possible. So yea, they should be able to digest food. They probably disappear into pixels upon death because the world stops translating them upon their death. That, or their death becomes a contradiction in the first place(would explain why Altair said Selesia's death would disrupt the world), so the world "de-translates them" to fix the problem, like what was happening to Altair afterwards.
  • If the MUP represents a threat to the whole world (and possibly to reality itself), how come nobody outside Japan seems to care about it? Wouldn't it be better to see Japan and other countries come up with a plan to contain her, instead of just a bunch of dudes who don't even seem to know what they're doing?
    • Japan tends to keep a policy of "dealing with their own problems" whenever something arises. Heck, many other countries(America, for example) would most likely do the same. Also, Altair seems to be a localized phenomenon at the time (Japanese only). Dragging in the rest of the world caused by a single Japanese citizen seems to be a bit of a overkill and shameful for the Japanese as that would paint them incompetent enough to ask for help with such a simple matter. Personal pride is a big thing for the country after all.
  • What happened to Magane?
    • She was shown at an airport at the end of episode 20. She's likely going to travel the world using the money she stole.
    • She kept doing what she have always done.
  • All the other creations were confirmed to be voiced by real seiyuu, since their stories had anime adaptations or were original anime, thus Selesia and Rui's seiyuu (Mikako Komatsu and Sora Amamiya) themselves were MC's for the ECF. But what about Altair? In our reality, we know she's voiced by Aki Toyosaki, but in-universe, she started existing all by herself, with her own voice. But someone had to be credited for being Altair's voice at the ECF. Who could that be? Same question applies to Setsuna.
  • If the preparations for the Elimination Chamber lasted six months... does it mean that Charon spent six months sitting on his ass in Altair's lair?
    • If Orcus wants to sit on his throne, he's going to make his minions sit with him. We don't know what Charon was doing in there; for all we know, he might have been barred from leaving the lair at all. Altair probably has the power to enforce it, considering how nuch she's capable of.
    • Simple. Charon is Altair's secret ace in the hole. By keeping him in reserve until the very last minute, the heroes can't plan any kind of countermeasures for him, and makes it all the harder (or in this case outright impossible) for Selesia and the other heroes to convince him to pull a Heel–Face Turn.
      • Which ends up being ironically hilarious, because the Creators kept their plot twists secret as well, so Altair(who was gaining omnipotence, but the Creators didn't know that), wouldn't know about Sirius, among other things as well.

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