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Misused: Opening A Can Of Clones

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To-do list:

  • Rename Opening a Can of Clones to No Permanence No Stakes, redefine as "The audience criticizes and/or loses interest in a story on the grounds that the purported stakes of the conflict are undercut by other story elements in ways that make the stakes appear less consequential (e.g. less severe and/or lasting) than intended", and index as YMMV.
    • Rewrite the description to match the revised definition, then move it to the new name and index as YMMV.
    • Clean up on-page examples.
    • Clean up wicks.

    Original post 
So, this trope has two different problems. First, Opening a Can of Clones is frequently misused for a character creating a bunch of clones of themselves or something similar, despite that not being close to the definition. Second, the actual trope is defined as objective despite describing an Audience Reaction — that being the audience no longer feeling there are actual stakes in a story due to the introduction of elements that can undo any consequences, such as clones, Time Travel, resurrection, or alternate universes.

Opening A Check Of Wicks results:

  • 18/50 (36%) described subjective judgements/audience reactions towards a work.
  • 23/50 (46%) took the "clones" part literally and described it as anything to do with a character having a lot of clones.
  • 9/50 (18%) were ZCEs.

Possible Solutions: This should be YMMV and renamed to something like "No Real Consequences Equals No Stakes" (clunky title, will try to come up with something better).

Wick check:

On this page, we will be doing a wick check for Opening a Can of Clones.

Why? Two reasons. First, Opening A Can Of Clones is frequently misused for a character creating a bunch of clones of themselves or something similar, despite that not being close to the definition. Second, the actual trope is defined as objective despite describing an Audience Reaction — that being the audience no longer feeling there are actual stakes in a story due to the introduction of elements that can undo any consequences, such as clones, Time Travel, resurrection, or alternate universes. As such, this should be YMMV and renamed to something like "No Real Consequences Equals No Stakes" (clunky title, will try to come up with something better).

Wicks checked: 50/50

    open/close all folders 

    Reads as Subjective Judgement (13/50) 
  1. Franchise.Metroid: Characters or creatures believed killed off in previous games commonly reappear as clones, robotic duplicates, X-Parasite doppelgangers, etc. (and in the case of Ridley, all of the above). This makes it almost impossible to truly believe that these characters are gone for good, and when some characters are revealed to survive (for example Kraid in Dread), there is a lot of speculation about whether it's the real character, a clone, or some other type of copy. There are even numerous theories that Samus herself is a clone, particularly following the events of Fusion.
  2. WebAnimation.Overly Sarcastic Productions: Though not mentioned by name, this is a major point of their Detail Diatribe on The Multiverse. It doesn't matter if a writer handles a time-travel or universe-altering plot well the first time; by introducing an in-canon Reset Button, the audience now knows that anything they're invested in can be undone whenever a later writer feels like it, which can be a major blow to their enjoyment of the franchise.
  3. Franchise Original Sin.Terminator: According to Word of God, the Terminator saga was always supposed to take place in a changeable timeline, and it was always supposed to climax with the heroes successfully stopping the birth of Skynet and rewriting history. Unfortunately, budget constraints forced James Cameron to save that spectacular climax for the sequel, with the original instead ending with a Stable Time Loop implying that John Connor's birth and the rise of Skynet were both inevitable. So when the heroes actually did seemingly stop Judgement Day, it made it look like the movies just had inconsistent rules regarding time travel. But it was easy to forgive that, partly because the heroes' victory at Cyberdyne made for a great Grand Finale, and partly because the idea of Kyle and Sarah being destined to conceive humanity's savior made for a great love story—even if those two plot points seemed to contradict each other. Many fans were unhappy when Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines claimed that Judgement Day really was inevitable all along, as not only was that idea not planned from the beginning, it also undid T2's ending. Terminator: Dark Fate also kept the idea of it being inevitable, but ignored all except the first two films. Skynet was never created, so the inevitable Robot War instead came in the form of a new artificial intelligence named Legion. Fans didn't like this twist, either, feeling that repeating the same Bad Future except with new characters didn't make the beloved ending to the second film seem any less pointless. Worse, the constant retconning as a result of the series' reliance on time-travel tropes has shattered almost any and all stakes the films used to have, as it becomes increasingly difficult to care about anything that happens in a story when there is no guarantee that any future plot points will be permanent.
  4. PlayingWith.Cessation Of Existence: Enforced: "If we can't let characters stay dead, we'll be Opening a Can of Clones. Or, worse, we could succumb to The Chris Carter Effect, what with the Big Bad's reincarnations. We need some way for characters to be Killed Off for Real."
  5. Quotes.Expendable Alternate Universe:
    The problem with these alternate universe/divergent timeline tropes that Nomura is obsessed with is that, unless you're a very clever writer [...], it's incredibly easy to make your characters feel like they're not special. It's incredibly easy to make them feel expendable. I think this fatal side effect of these tropes is the core reason why a lot of people hate this ending. For instance, Cloud Strife is no longer the Cloud Strife; he's just a Cloud Strife. I don't care about what happens to this dude because [the game] told me he's an alternate universe doppelganger. I don't care what happens to any of these people now.
  6. Unexpected Reactions to This Index: You've introduced Doppelgangers, and now dramatic scenes have no impact because there's a built-in Reset Button.
  7. YMMV.Original Sin: He's Just Hiding: Not everyone bought that Nick Fury is really dead, based on his use and abuse of Life Model Decoys in the past. These fans take "his" immunity to the secret bomb as evidence that it's not really him. Ultimately, this is proven correct.
  8. YMMV.Star Wars Rebels: The Season 4 episode "A World Between Worlds" is possibly the most divisive episode in the show if not the franchise. People either love the episode for resolving Ahsoka's ambiguous fate, bringing Palpatine in to the show, and expanding the franchise's lore. Detractors however feel that Ahsoka should've died in her fight against Vader, feeling that bringing her back through such a convoluted method turns her into a Creator's Pet. Detractors also feel that bringing time travel into the mythos will lead to the Can of Clones trope and will inevitably result in the franchise's lore rules being broken.
  9. ComicBook.Nick Fury: The LM Ds (Life Model Decoys) make his deaths less than believable.
  10. Quotes.One More Day:
    Stan's synopsis for the Green Goblin had a movie crew, on location, finding an Egyptian-like sarcophagus. Inside was an ancient, mythological demon, the Green Goblin. He naturally came to life. On my own, I changed Stan's mythological demon into a human villain...I rejected Stan's idea...A mythological demon made the whole Peter Parker/Spider-Man world a place where nothing is metaphysically impossible.
    Steve Ditko, co-creator of Spider-Man, (THE COMICS v12 #7 [2001] - "A Mini-History Part 1 -"The Green Goblin"), describing the origins of the Green Goblin and why magical concepts were antithetical to Spider-Man's story.
  11. Crying Wolf: On a similar note, see Opening a Can of Clones for when this situation extends to an author and their audience, where viewers become unable to take the work at face-value because of certain story decisions made by the writer.
  12. Quotes.Story Breaker Power:
    "[Force Healing] is a big plot hole because of the fact that it completely ruins death. There's no tension anymore. Death is a complete joke in this film. This person dies; comes back. This person dies; comes back. So, you do not give a shit when somebody dies! And not only that, but it completely ruins the series for the future. Like, you've got force ghosts that can do stuff [...], lightning strikes [...], and now we've got force healing [so] nobody can fucking die... I don't want to see episode X! I don't want to see XI; I don't want to see XII! ...They have to go away. They have to go back into the past."
    The Angry Joe Show on force healing in The Rise of Skywalker.

    Misuse — Takes the "Clones" Part Literally (23/50) 
  1. Fanfic.Coreline: Alternate Self: Explicitly called "Alternates" or variations of it (like "Walternate", for example), these are the many versions of a Fictional character that have appeared all over the CoreLine universe.
  2. VideoGame.Metal Gear Solid: Snake's brothers, Liquid and Solidus, are first introduced in this storyline. As a minor example, the Genome Soldiers share the same "soldier genes" that were harvested from Big Boss' remains. According to Liquid, this makes them all blood brothers.
  3. Fanfic.Atonement Worm: Several Noelle Clones are prominent characters, including Pandora And Defiant.
  4. Roleplay.Darwins Soldiers:
    • Averted. James Zanasiu has been seen in at least four different forms (regular, anti-matter, Furtopia regular, and AI) but they never interact, and so are easily distinguished.
    • On the other side of the coin, Rudyard Shelton has encountered all three of his doppelgängers (anti-matter, AI, and Keith Bailey but the problem of telling them apart never comes up since there are always superficial differences.
  5. Recap.Rick And Morty S 3 E 9 The AB Cs Of Beth: Ambiguous Clone Ending: Beth's choice at the end of the episode isn't disclosed: did she decide to stay, or did she accept Rick's offer to make a perfect clone of her while she went travelling? The Beth we see again at the end of the episode seems much more cheerful and involved with her children than usual, which could point to a "perfect mom" clone-Beth or a Beth finally at peace with herself and her choices. On top of that, even if she did accept Rick's offer, Beth would also be able to Kill and Replace the clone to return to her old life later on. Rick could very well make another clone in the future, so from this point onward, Beth could switch places with her clones an indeterminate number of times.
  6. Characters.PN 03: Schrödinger's Butterfly: Vanessa discovering a clone of herself in mission 9, discovering the Client is also a clone, and the Client saying memories can be faked calls into question just about everything in the game.
  7. Characters.Adventure Time Princess Bubblegum: What Measure Is a Non-Human?: Considers her subjects expendable, as she can make more. She has prevented Finn from sacrificing himself and allowed a candy subject to do so because of this specifically.
  8. Characters.Urbanus: (Nonkel Fillemon) He died in "De Buljanus-Dreiging" ("The Buljanus Threat"), but was cloned.
  9. Differently Dressed Duplicates: After all, when you're Opening a Can of Clones, clothes may not be duplicated with the extra bodies, or an error in the cloning process could be introduced to help the audience tell the two apart.
  10. Surprisingly Elite Cannon Fodder: * This is the entire premise of Star Wars: Battlefront II, where you play as the 501st Legion, which "has a history of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat."
  11. Webcomic.Darths And Droids: The comics and rants in Episode II note how the movies wasted the potential of having clones and shapeshifters. Later taken advantage of in Episode IV by making the original Han Solo a shapeshifter, allowing Jim's character to get away with impersonating him until Episode V, where, after capturing Jim's character, Boba Fett decides to cut him up and have a transplant of his flesh to restore his own shapeshifting ability.
  12. WesternAnimation.Detentionaire: Most of the teachers at A. Nigma High are clones, as hinted by some of them resembling famous historical figures.
  13. Characters.Monster Rancher Species: (Debuted in Monster Rancher 2) The Metalner that visits the ranch explains that a thousand years prior to the game, their race made clones of themselves and sealed them in Disc Stones, which they then left on our world.
  14. ComicBook.Elvis Shrugged: Along with the 1970s one of Elvis, we later see that the Mad Scientist has created several mini Elvis clones called "Elvii".
  15. PlayingWith.Disney Death: Double Subverted:
    • It turns out that it wasn't Walter who died, but a clone of him that was programmed to believe it was the original. Once he realizes what's going on, he creates a new, non-degenerated clone.
  16. Quotes.Only The Creator Does It Right:
    When 'Thanos Rising' was announced, I wrote: “I will buy it. Partly because I’m curious, partly because I like Jason Aaron’s writing, partly because it seems like the sort of thing that would break my internet silence after less than three months. But, let’s not kid ourselves: this is clearly the broken memories of one of the defective clones of Thanos. Sorry. That doesn’t mean it can’t be good. It just means that if you’re not Jim Starlin, you’re writing about a clone.” I stand by that today.
    Chad Nevett on Thanos Rising
  17. Recap.SCP Foundation SC Ps 2000 To 2499: (SCP-2000) It repopulates the world with clones.
  18. Characters.One Minute Melee Season One: (Dante vs. Ragna the Bloodeedge) The skill-set this Ragna has seems to indicate it's not the original Ragna. He's found by Dante surrounded by three defeated Hakumens, presumably clones as well. Judging from the green, red, and blue lights he absorbed from the defeated Hakumens, he got the copies by beating them.
  19. Characters.Brave New World Pokemon: (Antagonists) Due to how easily he dies, Professor Tarwntulas set up a cloning system whenever he is killed.
  20. Alike and Antithetical Adversaries: One extreme representation of this is to make the villains Not Even Human, rather being a horde of identical robots, insects or clones.
  21. Denser and Wackier: Lois & Clark begins as a sort of office comedy interspliced with Clark's super heroics. Though the main duo stay more or less grounded in domestic reality, their surroundings become more akin to the Silver Age comics, with goofball villains (including Shelley Long, Drew Carey, Sylvia from The Nanny, and culminating in the guy from Night Court sporting a giant latex head and calling himself Dr. Klaus Mensa), time travel, magic, and clones galore.
  22. Story Arc: The King of Fighters:
  23. ComicBook.Marvel A Fresh Start: Clones have always been a long-standing fixture in the Marvel universe but in these new storylines, cloning takes prominence as a plot point.
In Amazing Spider-Man it's been revealed that Kraven forced the High Evolutionary to clone him a large number of times in an attempt to raise a better heir. One of them took his Egomaniac Hunter ideals to the point of murdering all his "brothers" and ends up taking Kraven's place once he dies. Hickman's X-Men run has the mutants devise a way to resurrect their dead by cloning new bodies and uploading the latest backup of their minds into it. Tony Stark learns he really did die in Civil War II and that he's just a mental backup in a reconstructed body. This also applied to Rhodes, who he resurrected by the same means, and his parents, who Arno brought back in the same way when he found out. Natasha Romanoff is alive again after Secret Empire because the Red Room has similar clone backup protocols for all their agents. The telepath in charge of the process was bribed into using the heroic Black Widow's memories instead of one loyal to them.

    Other Misuse (2/50) 
  1. Memes.One Piece: Clone PieceExplanation (spoilers) Misuse for Epileptic Trees
  2. YMMV.A Song Of Ice And Fire: The Faceless Men; just look at the WMG page. This despite the fact that the only use of Actually a Doombot the series has so far pulled off was actually Melisandre's doing. This also seems to be based on an earlier understanding of Faceless Man powers that was jossed in A Dance With Dragons: The Faceless Men keep around faces taken off of corpses and use blood magic to put them on their own faces. While this doesn't necessarily rule out impersonation via glamour, chances are that if a Faceless Man impersonates someone, the person they are impersonating is dead. Despite being "objective", item is used on YMMV page as though it is YMMV. Also misuse for Epileptic Trees.

    Unclear (1/50) 
  1. AudienceAlienatingEnding.Video Games: Final Fantasy:

    ZCEs (12/50) 
  1. VisualNovel.Umineko When They Cry: Given all the Reality Warper and Your Mind Makes It Real-type tropes that are involved, this was kind of inevitable. The red text is supposed to defuse the problem a bit, although a lot of it simply hinges on your trust of Beatrice in general.
  2. Anime.The Big O: Commented out trope name and nothing else
  3. Manga.Battle Angel Alita: The AR series.
  4. YMMV.Bayonetta 3: Play the Game, Skip the Story: While it has some technical issues, on a gameplay front, Bayonetta 3 is regarded to be a great action game that improves upon many of the flaws in Bayonetta 1 and 2, while having a very satisfying and free flowing combat system, as well as some extra variety in the form of Viola. The story on the other hand, has seen a more contested response from fans and critics, with many finding aspects of it, such as the multiverse plot potentially Opening a Can of Clones, the Relationship Upgrade between Bayonetta and Luka, Bayonetta's death at the end, and Viola becoming the next Bayonetta, amongst other aspects, to be underdeveloped and/or unsatisfying.
  5. SanitySlippage.Comic Books: The Transformers (Marvel):
    • Happens to Shockwave in the UK comics, when he learns he dies in the future. Determined to prevent this, he finds Megatron and sets him on Galvatron (well... it's complicated). Then the two start working together. Shockwave, who didn't expect this, just snaps, and kills anyone who approaches him.
  6. ComicBook.The Clone Saga: The Spider-books in general are famous for this trope, but this is the story arc that kicked it into high gear. Peter later uncovers the original clone's scorched remains in the chimney; probably the intention was to throw doubt on Ben's identity and put forward the possibility of both Spider-Men being clones. By this point, though, there were already so many clones running around, the effect was lost and the whole subplot was discarded. Despite all the text, none of it makes clear which of the two uses of the trope it is referring to.
  7. Film.Two Thousand And One A Space Travesty: Trope name and nothing else
  8. Laconic.Infinity Abyss: Thanos gets his own Clone Saga.
  9. ComicBook.Astro City: Commented out trope name and nothing else
  10. Webcomic.Monster Of The Week: Who's the real Samantha?
  11. Red String of Fate: The protagonist (one of them anyway) accidentally discovers this during the events of Kiln People. At the end of the novel, he's dropped his job as a Private Detective and is advertising an agency to link people with their soulmates.
  12. Our Clones Are Identical: Why should anyone care about what happens to these clones?

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 26th 2024 at 6:38:48 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#51: Mar 19th 2024 at 8:17:17 AM

How exactly should I reorganize the wicks?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#52: Mar 19th 2024 at 8:20:07 AM

[up]See here. Simply looking at objective versus subjective uses isn't enough: we need to know how tropers are using the thing, or misusing it as the case may be. In addition to misuse about clones, you probably need a category for "other misuse", "unclear", etc.

Edited by StarSword on Mar 19th 2024 at 11:22:09 AM

JonahtheMann Since: Mar, 2015
#53: Mar 19th 2024 at 8:40:44 AM

Perhaps a useful term (or trope name) would be: "Unreliable Writer."

In an Unreliable Narrator story, only the narrator character is lying to the audience (often unintentionally). Meanwhile, other characters and plot details are *trying* to clue the audience into the fact that said characters perspective is not true (and those clues are often made clear via a plot twist later).

Thus, the audience still has a way of telling what's "real" from what isn't; they can still trust that the WRITER is telling them the truth by means of the NON-NARRATOR characters/plot details.

"Unreliable Writer" is when the entire fictional world is unreliable. The audience can't take what're seeing at face-value because there are no reliable, in-universe means of telling what matters from what doesn't.

JonahtheMann Since: Mar, 2015
#54: Mar 19th 2024 at 8:45:54 AM

They can't trust that the WRITER isn't flat-out lying to them, or that the writer isn't just going to throw something new into the story which changes everything with no warning.

JonahtheMann Since: Mar, 2015
#55: Mar 19th 2024 at 8:48:18 AM

And I agree, this would have to be a YMMV trope, since its a judgement call involving a lack of trust in the author by the audience.

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#56: Mar 19th 2024 at 9:13:01 AM

For the record, editing own post is preferable to making multiple posts, if it's the last one in the thread. Keeps the discussion organized.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Mitochondricat 3 Rats In a Trench Coat Since: Feb, 2023
3 Rats In a Trench Coat
#57: Mar 19th 2024 at 10:02:26 AM

[up][up][up][up] I like Unreliable Writer, but I’m worried that it’s going to get confused with Negative Continuity and the like, where people will assume it’s about the writing itself being inconsistent rather than a specific “consequences don’t last” subject. Maybe something like Unreliable Consequences or What Happened To The Consequences would work better.

Witty witticisms are witty.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#58: Mar 19th 2024 at 10:04:57 AM

I think "Unreliable Writer" as a name would imply way more than the trope on hand and wouldn't be out of place for the entire Writing Pitfall Index.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#59: Mar 19th 2024 at 10:05:32 AM

It also feels like immediate flame bait territory if I'm being honest.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Can shapeshift (probably)
#60: Mar 19th 2024 at 11:18:12 AM

What's the difference between "unreliable", "no consequences" and "consequences are important" in this context, though? The story highlighting the importance of lasting consequences through a deviation of that could work objectively as a Trope in Aggregate, but Deus ex Machina feels like it's in the same category in a way that's subjective.

The "unreliable writer" idea is a good one on paper, but it sounds like it's meshing having consequences and not having consequences together in a way where Willing Suspension of Disbelief is lost, which might not be distinct from Death of the Author. I'm wondering if that trope's own problems are relevant here, though, because I think the UW concept might be able to fix some of that (i.e. less about Word of God and cited sources, more about the assumption that what a creator says is directly related to WSOD).

IDK if my suggestion (making this a supertrope) is clear on the suspension of disbelief thing, but the Metroid example of this trope is close to what I had in mind about certain characters being in the spotlight in a way that reminds the audience how far "fatalism" really extends, since it mentions the offscreen survival of a more minor antagonist (one whose emotions are limited to mostly anger, and is part of the Space Pirate raid that caused/is contributing to Samus' grief in the first place).

[down] I meant fatalism more in the sense of a character knowing they lack proper control over an outcome, but the audience focusing more on which minor characters know about their struggle/only just found out about it.

Edited by Coachpill on Mar 19th 2024 at 4:10:54 AM

Silver and gold, silver and gold
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#61: Mar 19th 2024 at 12:39:03 PM

[up]I'm not sure how the fatalism thing is relevant?

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#62: Mar 19th 2024 at 3:03:02 PM

I really don't know if your idea is that similar to anything being discussed here. The audience isn't focused on anything of that sort.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Can shapeshift (probably)
#63: Mar 19th 2024 at 8:17:36 PM

What about Willing Suspension of Disbelief, though? Or is the UW concept more of a "no one knows what to expect, but the writer can't be truthful" kind of thing? I feel like we're drifting through both of the basic ideas here, but IDK if they're necessarily all/both subjective, since it feels like there's an intended audience participation element somewhere a la Separate Scene Storytelling.

I might be going off on a tangent here, so maybe sorting through the wicks will pin down a more solid definition. Right now I still think...whatever this trope should actually be has potential to be done in a non-Flame Bait/proto-complaining way, though.

Silver and gold, silver and gold
WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#64: Mar 19th 2024 at 8:18:33 PM

I mean, nobody is really sold on the idea of "Unreliable Writer" anyway.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#65: Mar 19th 2024 at 9:38:13 PM

Not seeing how "Unreliable Writer" is relevant to this trope.

Can Of Clones is when there are so many means of reversing story progress/changes to status quo it renders the conflict meaningless because it can be undone. Most such examples are writers not thinking the reset button implications through as opposed to dishonesty (Like You Would Really Do It when they try to pull such).

If that's not the definition of Can Of Clones I don't see the value in the trope.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Mar 19th 2024 at 9:40:41 AM

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#66: Mar 19th 2024 at 10:35:33 PM

I feel this gone slightly off-topic to discuss writing in general. The discussion is about what Opening a Can of Clones's description says it and what examples make it sound like.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
JonahtheMann Since: Mar, 2015
#67: Mar 20th 2024 at 6:58:23 AM

All good points. I like "unreliable consequences," or simply: "No Consequences, No Stakes."

Some other possible names I've came up with (and I'm just spit-balling here) are: "Opening a Can of Reset Buttons", "Pandora's Undo Button" (named after Pandora's Box), "Will This Even Last?", "What If This Doesn't Last?", or "Will This Be Permanent?"

I think the difference between the Can of Clones and Like You Would Really Do IT is that the latter:

1) is when the audience is skeptical of something which has not happened yet, and

2) applies to brief, individual scenes (rather than the story as a whole).

E.g., the audience doesn't believe that the antagonist actually will kill the main character at this point in the story (but they'd still be shocked and devastated if they did).

Opening a Can of Clones is a reaction which:

1) seems to apply to major plot points (perhaps even the story as a whole) rather than just a brief moment where a character's life is threatened, and

2) persists even long AFTER the shocking moment has already happened. E.g., even if the character is shown dying, the audience suspects the author is just going to bring them back later. (In worst-case scenarios, the audience might even suspect that the entire story will just be erased later with time-travel).

Perhaps another possible name (to contrast it with Like You Would Really Do It) would be: "Did You Really Do It?", although that may sound too much like an Accidental Innuendo.

Edited by JonahtheMann on Mar 20th 2024 at 10:08:10 AM

NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#68: Mar 20th 2024 at 7:54:17 AM

[up]Most of your name ideas sound like stock phrases, so I like "No Consequences, No Stakes" the best.

Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Can shapeshift (probably)
#69: Mar 20th 2024 at 8:17:58 AM

It's not too catchy, but I definitely think that's the best title so far.

Silver and gold, silver and gold
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#70: Mar 20th 2024 at 9:10:54 AM

We're definitely not going with a dialogue-like title regardless of what we go with if we rename this, per No New Stock Phrases.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 20th 2024 at 11:11:22 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Mitochondricat 3 Rats In a Trench Coat Since: Feb, 2023
3 Rats In a Trench Coat
#71: Mar 20th 2024 at 11:25:52 AM

[tup] to No Consequences, No Stakes (or "No Consequences Means No Stakes" - I think it's a bit catchier, but that could just be me). I think it's the least likely to get confused at a first glance.

Witty witticisms are witty.
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#72: Mar 20th 2024 at 2:41:00 PM

I tried moving around the wicks a little, but I might need a little help since I am also working on a project for university and I still don't completely know where each wick should go.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#73: Mar 20th 2024 at 2:42:11 PM

e: misread, assumed it's about examples and not the wick check

Edited by Amonimus on Mar 20th 2024 at 12:43:17 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
JonahtheMann Since: Mar, 2015
#74: Mar 20th 2024 at 9:36:41 PM

It just occurred to me that "No Permanence Means No Stakes" would be a better title than "No Consequences Means No Stakes" because the trope isn't about whether or not certain consequences merely happen in the story; it's about whether or not those consequences will LAST.

Mitochondricat 3 Rats In a Trench Coat Since: Feb, 2023
3 Rats In a Trench Coat

Trope Repair Shop: Opening a Can of Clones
23rd Apr '24 1:31:26 AM

Crown Description:

Consensus was to do the following:
  • Define as "The audience criticizes and/or loses interest in a story on the grounds that the purported stakes of the conflict are undercut by other story elements in ways that make the stakes appear less consequential (e.g. less severe and/or lasting) than intended."
  • Rename .
  • Make YMMV .

What should Opening A Can Of Clones' new name be?

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