TV Tropes Org

Forums

Repair Shop Morgue:
Misused: The Messiah
search forum titles
google site search
Total posts: [103]
1
 2  3  4 5

Misused: The Messiah get usage counts

 1 shimaspawn, Mon, 1st Apr '13 12:42:13 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
The Messiah is being frequently misused for Messiah characters, i.e. characters that come to be a saviour of a people. The actual definition of the trope is just any character that's well liked by other characters. This has been causing some issues with the trope as one could understand.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
In fairness, being the first doesn't prevent you from being the second. But I will admit it's a problem. Technically, we have Messianic Archetype for actual Jesus-expies, right?
 3 Mag Bas, Mon, 1st Apr '13 1:03:51 PM from In my house
The description in the first paragraph is:"The main character, simply put, loves everyone. Loves them with a deep, spiritual love that means they will shake heaven and earth, destroy gods and planets, bring nations to their knees, etc. for the person they just met yesterday. They will believe the best of everyone, and constantly give someone a second chance (though they will defeat the Big Bad). They repay cruelty with kindness and anger with calm, as long as the attacks are only against themó they're not forgiving of harm done to others. They are the ones who will suffer for the sins of their loved ones. Most people think they're insane, but somehow they pull it off. Even Mary Sue and Marty Stu are impressed." In other words "character that likes all", not " any character that's well liked".

Flower Fairy
The Laconic entry states that it is goodness taken to ludicrous levels. The Opposite Tropes page states that it's the opposite of Complete Monster.

Since being absolutely and irredeemably depraved is considered subjective on this site, could we consider being really, really good subjective as well?
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
 5 Septimus Heap, Mon, 1st Apr '13 1:31:39 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
This trope needs a rename - it's not what The Messiah means at all.

Flower Fairy
[up]How can we do that without conflicting with Incorruptible Pure Pureness?
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
 7 Mag Bas, Mon, 1st Apr '13 4:56:12 PM from In my house
The last paragraph of the description is: "In the context of methods of climax fulfillment, this may be referred to as a "Love Hero". May overlap with For Happiness as a character motivation."

 8 Septimus Heap, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 6:27:47 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
@6: We certainly can find a different name. Usually, if you can't find a distinct name, there isn't a distinct trope either.

 9 Willbyr, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 6:32:03 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
All Encompassing Love, perhaps?
 10 shimaspawn, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 6:36:17 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
[up][up] Nope, that's not true at all. Normally if you can't find a distinct name it's because either English never bothered to name it, or the term normally used in English has eight other meanings because English is a bitch like that. Or because we just aren't creative enough. It has zero to do with tropability.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 11 Septimus Heap, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 6:41:34 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
I somehow like @9. @10, I'll buy the middle part.

 12 shoboni, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 10:58:40 AM from Iowa, USA
Then I need to remove the kid from Highlander: The Animated Series. Just in the abridged origin movie alone he goes mad from power, makes an ass of himself due to ego problems, and has a My God, What Have I Done? moment.

I think people are mixing it up with The Chosen One

edited 2nd Apr '13 11:01:27 AM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 13 Another Duck, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 11:04:16 AM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
I think I'm going to go with +1 rename for several of the reasons stated above.

However, do we have actual numbers of misuse? I mean, it's a popular trope at over 2500 wicks and almost 1000 inbounds.

edited 2nd Apr '13 11:09:06 AM by AnotherDuck

Check out my fanfiction!
I'd say rename to Love Hero. I keep forgetting which trope is The Messiah and which is Messianic Archetype. sad Even if I used the wrong one though, both often apply to the same character, so it might not be obvious.

edited 2nd Apr '13 11:52:39 AM by Prime32

 
 15 Xtifr, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 4:15:24 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Hmm, with 2500 wicks, I'd want to see a statistically-significant wick check (that's 50 wicks chosen randomly) before formally supporting a rename, but I find it hard to believe that a wick check won't show significant misuse. The name seems quite misleading.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
I personally don't see it misused that often.

I haven't seen much explicit misuse, but I've seen enough questionable examples that I think a wick check is a good idea.
 18 Septimus Heap, Wed, 3rd Apr '13 12:36:02 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Let me try (Doublecounting pages with more than one wick):

 19 Another Duck, Wed, 3rd Apr '13 9:42:01 PM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
You know, having recently read Watashi No Messiah Sama (I hate dashes in links), having The Messiah with that name gets a little confusing on that page, since it should be potholed to Messianic Archetype in all occasions except about one occasion (the actual entry for The Messiah). Just a small note.

edited 3rd Apr '13 9:43:50 PM by AnotherDuck

Check out my fanfiction!
I agree that this trope is being misused, often its used to describe characters that don't really fit the trope, but I oppose renaming it. I think the messiah s the most fitting title for this kind of character and should remain as is.
 
 21 Noaqiyeum, Sat, 20th Apr '13 1:20:45 PM from Ockham Asylum Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
No... Messianic Archetype is what The Messiah should mean. Love Hero or All Encompassing Love seems to match the description...

(Here's an example of how the name and description mismatch: Izaya Orihara would probably fall under All Encompassing Love, but he is definitely not even a Dark Messiah by any stretch of the imagination.)
Go and get your riot gear! Swing your partner all around -
We'll be dancing on the cinders as the town is burning down!
I'd throw Izaya under the heading of subversion (his is a very yandere love), so maybe he's not the best example.
 23 Editor Pall Mall, Sat, 20th Apr '13 10:02:43 PM from United States, East Coast
Don't Fear the Spiders
@4 - Because being absolutely and irredeemably depraved is subjective in real life as well. Complete Monster is a case of a bunch of overly technical nerds enforcing draconian policies on a highly suggestive trope which only corresponds for what their definition of "absolutely and irredeemably depraved" is. [/rant] Anyway, the Laconic is wrong; this is not the polar opposite of Complete Monster because it only applies in-universe.

The main problem with this trope is the name. The Messiah archtype is a term which originates outside of TVtropes which does mean a savior to a group of people. It occurs in religions, fiction, and sometimes in real life. The name needs to be changed.

edited 20th Apr '13 10:27:54 PM by EditorPallMall

Keep it breezy!
Flower Fairy
Single Proposition Crowner for everyone. As usual for this current time, hooked crowners don't work, so vote on the crowner itself.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
 25 Noaqiyeum, Sun, 21st Apr '13 11:53:51 AM from Ockham Asylum Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
[up][up][up] Yandere love is still love. My point is he's clearly not any kind of messiah. :P

[up][up] This.
Go and get your riot gear! Swing your partner all around -
We'll be dancing on the cinders as the town is burning down!

Alternative Titles: The Messiah
23rd Apr '13 1:00:22 PM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:
Total posts: 103
1
 2  3  4 5


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy