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Ambiguous Name: Winds Of Destiny Change get usage counts

Dragon Writer
What is this thing?*.

Well, it's a good trope, but it at least needs some Redirect Farming. Badly.

I'm scanning the wikilinks right now (a damned slow task, that), and collecting examples of links that need some kind of help.

[EDIT - Complete A thru I range. Stopping before J.]


Zero-Context Example or pothole of concern


Unknown


Suspected misuse outright:


Lists and indexes


Looks generally correct

  • (21 of 55 articles checked)

edited 11th Mar '12 10:43:39 AM by Stratadrake

 2 lu 127, Sun, 11th Mar '12 9:41:57 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
The Bleach examples are correct.

I think this name is pretty clear, and I didn't even know it was a reference to a work.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
 4 lu 127, Sun, 11th Mar '12 9:47:30 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Wait, update. I confused this with another trope.

This is the power to alter probability. So, the Bleach examples are incorrect.

I dislike the first line of the description. Screw Destiny as a superpower isn't what the trope is about, and it's misleading.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
Dragon Writer
On an aside, do we have a tool to convert curly-brace links to their Wiki Word equivalent? Freedom City Play By Post had hundreds and hundreds of curly-brace links and it took me over half an hour to update them. I'm cutting off my sample with the I range for now — that distraction took waaaay too damned long.

edited 11th Mar '12 10:44:17 AM by Stratadrake

 6 Spark 9, Sun, 11th Mar '12 11:45:28 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Is this supposed to be a pun on the famous song Winds Of Change? Because I should point out it basically means the opposite of what the song does.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
Not An Avatar
Sorry to sidetrack a bit, but I think that one of the problems with Winds of Destiny, Change comes from confusion with Born Lucky. The current divide between the two tropes is that Winds of Destiny, Change is conscious, Born Lucky is just unconscious luck.

Born Lucky is confusing because it doesn't distinguish between ordinary luck and a superpower, and asserts that the character must always be lucky. Plus it has a fixation on "born", even in the laconic. And Winds of Destiny, Change is mostly unconscious anyway, because only the most godlike examples can really control the actual specifics of how chance/fate/luck is altered when they use their power, and it's often an always-on deal anyway.

Bottom line, it's a lot of grey areas that renaming alone won't fix. If the name Winds of Destiny, Change is a problem, it's probably as much underuse as misuse, due to restrictive defining factors of both tropes making people unsure where examples go.

edited 11th Mar '12 5:27:27 PM by Treblain

We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
Winged Doom
I can say that Touhou one (on CurbStompBattle.Fan Fic) is correct.

I think a title based on "luck" would be not quite correct. At least, Remilia's power (apparently-subconscious manipulation of Fate) doesn't seem to have anything related to luck. Or maybe I am misinterpreting the trope...
WE CLAIM THIS LAND FOR THE HIGH LORD. GOD BLESS THIS LAND AND OUR HIGH LORD.
 9 ccoa, Fri, 16th Mar '12 2:56:12 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Isn't it more bending the laws of probability than luck?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Winged Doom
Indeed, but it looks like the examples on the page include both.

So, is the trope defined as "manipulating probability"?

edited 17th Mar '12 2:52:48 AM by OneMore

WE CLAIM THIS LAND FOR THE HIGH LORD. GOD BLESS THIS LAND AND OUR HIGH LORD.
[up] That seems to be the case. At least as far as I can tell, this trope isn't about manipulating luck, it's manipulating probability, i.e. the ability to increase or decrease the chance of specific outcomes. Manipulating luck is far more general, making it so a specific target is prone receiving to a certain kind outcome. In other words, someone with this power can make it so that the winning lottery numbers match that of a certain ticket; someone who manipulates luck can make a certain person lucky enough to get the winning lottery ticket. They're similar, but the focus of the power is different.

Let's use a basic example to compare other cases to. Lady Bernkastel of Umineko no Naku Koro ni has a power which is quite explicitly defined: she can cause any event to occur so long as the chances of that event occurring are not zero. That would fall under this trope, yes?

It seems like what we really need is a trope between Born Lucky and Winds Of Destiny, Change, for people who explicitly have the power to manipulate their or another person's luck, as opposed to being inexplicably lucky/being able to manipulate probability.
 
Winged Doom
I can see several different tropes that may be confused/misused here:

  1. Simply always being lucky, without any explicit supernaturalities involved.
    Should be covered by Born Lucky.

  2. "Manipulating probability" — a supernatural power to change (usually increase) probability of a certain event/outcome happening.
    Examples: Lady Bernkastel from Umineko no Naku Koro ni (as said above), Arcueid Brunestud's Marble Phantasm from Tsukihime (capable of, for example, creating vacuum by driving the molecules of air away via manipulating Brownian motion).
    Should be under Winds of Destiny, Change.

  3. "Manipulating luck" — a supernatural power to give or take away "luck" to/from oneself or others; "luck" being defined as "increased probability of events beneficial for the character".
    Examples: Tewi Inaba from Touhou (explicit power of "granting luck to humans"), can't think of any more right now.
    Not currently a distinct tope, as far as I know, and can be (mis-)put under either of the previous two. May need a trope page, if it's worth it.

(edit: in hindsight, it is pretty much what you explained in the post above; but at least made more clear)

edited 20th Mar '12 12:57:32 PM by OneMore

WE CLAIM THIS LAND FOR THE HIGH LORD. GOD BLESS THIS LAND AND OUR HIGH LORD.
Winged Doom
Bump.

Any thoughts about renaming, or splitting (#2 and #3 in my previous post)?
WE CLAIM THIS LAND FOR THE HIGH LORD. GOD BLESS THIS LAND AND OUR HIGH LORD.
 14 ccoa, Tue, 24th Apr '12 1:19:38 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Let's spin off the "luck superpower" trope, clean the examples, and keep an eye on it. If it continues to collect misuse after that, we'll try renaming.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 15 Nanuq, Mon, 30th Apr '12 4:37:47 AM from Phoenix, AZ
"Probability Power"?

Ecce Homo Superior
[up]I like that!
(it's David Bowie)
 17 Cider, Mon, 30th Apr '12 8:10:53 AM from Not New York Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
redirects are free
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Not An Avatar
[up] Except they're not talking about redirects. There are multiple tropes in here.
We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
 19 Cider, Tue, 1st May '12 5:33:37 PM from Not New York Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
The trope this page is describing is a Stock Super Power. All "other tropes" found here are just misuse and The Same but More Specific respectively.

If the character is just lucky that's not this trope. If their luck is supernatural but not conscience that's Power Incontinence or its not an example of this trope. Power over luck and power over probability is about as distinct as Magic and Magick(not at all). One is just more likely to be used by writers trying to be more "serious".

As for Winds Of Destiny Change, redirects are free.

edited 1st May '12 5:34:56 PM by Cider

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
 20 ccoa, Tue, 1st May '12 5:51:47 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Cider, we were talking about names for the tropes we're going to spin off. Not for this trope.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Probability Manipulation and Luck Manipulation seem good to me if that's how you intend to split this. Well, I guess you're only splitting off the luck based one, but this just seems like a bad name to me.

edited 1st May '12 6:08:33 PM by Arha

Winged Doom
I already made a YKTTW for Luck Manipulation Power, but I suck at descriptions, so any help is welcome (Up for Grabs).
WE CLAIM THIS LAND FOR THE HIGH LORD. GOD BLESS THIS LAND AND OUR HIGH LORD.
 23 Nanuq, Wed, 2nd May '12 11:02:38 AM from Phoenix, AZ
[up][up]I'm fine with this.

 24 Lightflame, Wed, 2nd May '12 4:40:28 PM from where you can't find me Relationship Status: Drowning in your pond, hoping you'll notice me
Sharp-eyed Jay
The Wheel of Time example is correct. Mat Cauthon actually has magical luck.
"Oh great! Let's pile up all the useless cats and hope a tree falls on them!"
Yo, I saw the TRS thread for Luck Manipulation Power and wrote a new description. Does that look like what people were talking about doing in here?

Total posts: 54
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