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No doubt some of us have noticed by now, but Darkscribes.com has become darkscribes.org. A few pages might have to be adjusted.
EDIT: Ooh, wait, there's history to this! Darkscribes went dark some time last year, but seems to be making a slow and gradual comeback.
Can we move to subpages? This page just gets bigger and bigger.
I'm moving now
I'd like to remove the fic Ayanami Vengeance from the page, because, even if there is one troper that recomends, the only comment is a long negative review. It does not makes sense, this is supposed to "Fanfic Recommendation" pages not "Fanfic Avoidment" (I mean, if the number of negative reviews is superior to the positives, what is the point of keeping such a fic here?). But I'd like to discuss it first.
Also, plugging on the above discussion.
I want to discuss the presence of the "Father" fanfic. In the current state there are three negative reviews (mine, and 2 others that flat out say that it is bad to the point of not deserving the rec), and only one (the recommender's) positive. I wonder what other tropers feel would be an appropriate action about it:
Recs can be removed if there's a strong negative consensus. One more bad review, and I say we nuke that puppy.
I would contest removing any fic that one person thinks is worth reading, and willing to put their name to that effect. The reviews can add supplementary information, and provide info for people to avoid if they want to, but end of the day this is Fan Fic Recommendations and someone recommends this fanfic. The page is doing its job, and the reviews are doing theirs.
True, but I still think that overwhelming consensus (i.e., not just a couple of folks who don't like it relative to lots who do) is a good grounds for removal simply because unlike the rest of the wiki, quality actually matters on a recs page. Otherwise, it is no longer a useful tool.
I'd disagree, I think it shows it is working perfectly. Anyone can recommend a fic as worth reading, but if it is a bit of a duffer then that recommendation is balanced out by the reviews and the reader can make their own judgement. Once we start getting into judging a fic's quality or worth for inclusion then we are setting ourselves up for another Antvasima situation.
There are several fics for various fandoms that I know I would recommend as being well worth reading, but would garner huge amounts of negative reviews under current fandom fashions (in particular, the "everything must be pure canon and indistinguishable from a broadcast episode" faction which is really noisy right now. Alt-universe is entirely out of fashion, and get shrieked down no matter how entertaining it is). And would end up being removed.
Trouble is fandom fashion changes, and those fics would, a few years back, be massively supported as great examples (it used to be the reverse, alt-universe was loved, and written to be an episode fics were decried as bland, useless, and lacking imagination). However, I think those fics are worth reading, I enjoyed them tremendously, I think others would like them, I know they benefit fandom by their existence, so I recommend them despite current fashion (which will change on its own in a couple of years).
We have to be aware of that. That is what the rec&review system does.
Fandom fashions are one thing. Accusing a fic of being misogynistic, OOC tripe is quite another. Misogyny is rarely fashionable, and OOC, unless deliberate, is generally considered one of the biggest sins for a fic.
terms such as accusations of misogyny are the usual when someone wants to attack something, find a nasty term and apply it (we even have a trope for it). And OOC wasn't always the biggest fic sin, in fact at one point it was desired (quite a few people still like it, and frankly why should there not be recommendations for those people? They are fans too). Which is exactly what I mean by things being in or out of fashion. What you are actually saying is that a person's recommendation should be removed on basis of other people's personal dislikes about what the fic is. That's what the reviews are for. To say something along the lines of "well, yeah, they might find it good but I personally don't based on my own likes and dislikes", and then the reader can form their own opinion.
Aww, c'mon, you really think that they can't be calling the work misogynist because they do, in fact, find it misogynist? The Abomination Accusation Attack is rarer than media tends to portray it, mostly because it's such an effective silencing tactic for shutting down legitimate complaints. And let's face it, with that premise, misogyny is a very real possibility.
Hey can we get better Summaries for many of these? One or two lines that don't actually tell you anything about the fic (IE: Thousand Shinji's "A crossover with Warhammer 40,000, different from Shinji And Warhammer 40 K because it's an actual universe crossover rather than the boardgame making an appearance.") don't seem to serve much of a point.
Edit: Especially for ones say simply "A Fusion/Straight Crossover with X", since that says quite litteraly nothing about the plot to someone unfamiliar with Eva/The Crossover.
Edit 2: Also we seem to have possibly lost a few fics. For instance there was one billed as "a response to The Open Door", but I can't seem to recall the title of it, and we've lost the description that called it that.
I'd love to see some better synopses and more expansive reviews for a lot of these fics, but the latter is entirely up to the people who originally wrote them...I may try to work on some of the synopses, but I've got other projects I'm working on including the reviews. As far as the Open Door response fic, I have no idea.
Aha! Found it. It's actually on the MGLN page, rather than the Evangelion page.
Ramenth: If you want better synopsis then add them, we are a wiki. As Willbyr says it is up to the original poster to use that to sell their recommendation, if they put a poor one up then it should tell you something about both the quality of the fic and the judgement of the recommender.
Which story is this for, then?
Sorry, I am all made of fail with technology stuff. Matters Of Faith.
I've started to move the comments into reviews. If you have a comment that you want saved, please message me and let me know; otherwise, if it reads too much like natter, it's likely going to be deleted and made into a simple note of your handle on the Recommended by line if it's not comprehensive enough to be considered as a review. I'll save the comments that I can't decide whether or not should be kept here in subsequent posts for debate on inclusion.
Here are the culled comments from Shinji And Warhammer 40 K
Here are the culled comments from Children of an Elder God that weren't redundant with the material in the rec.
Taken from the Ranma crossover section, for NGE: Angel of Light:
Taken from the Peggy Sue section, for Making a Difference
Taken from Taking Sights
Taken from The Second Try
RE: the last edit. There are several fics on the page with negative comments. Comartemis' may be one of the harshest examples, but I don't think we should be cutting them out, much like I don't think we should remove fics that get negative comments such as what happened a year or so ago with a couple that I dissed. Maybe there should be a separate folder for disputed recommendations...
Holy crap, no. No, no, a Googolplex of no. Every story is disputed by someone. I think the best way to handle it is a three sentence limit for negative comments. Lets face it, if it goes beyond 3 sentences it's a rant not a comment.
Ummmm...no. Not that I disagree with the spirit of what you're going for, but some of the negative comments about fics are more than three sentences but do a good job of explaining what's wrong with the fic in the reader's mind. The writeups for Hellstorm Evangelion and DELTA Invasion are prime examples, and I could've broken my critique of Variations on a Theme into more sentences if I wasn't addicted to run-ons. It might be better to put a note somwhere on the page to make comments as much as possible about specifics that you like/don't like, especially for the latter.
So how do we define a rant then? A negative comment that says a fic is bad without going into specifics?
well this really isn't the place for the specifics and critiques. If the work has a TV Tropes page then specifics goes on their review page, if it is on The Pit Of Voles specifics goes in their reviews page and so on... Otherwise we'll just continue to be inundated with Complaining About Shows You Dont Like (and to be fair also Gushing About Shows You Like). Frankly I'd be in favour of withdrawing the comments section altogether if that were possible (especially after what has gone on in certain other pages), the recs should be title, author, link, recommender, and synopsis. Or reduce the comments section to simply warning for tags and triggers (which IIRC was all it was supposed to be to start with), rather than cheerleading or soapboxing.
However, whatever we do, please no separate folder for disputed works.
Given that this is specifically a recommendations page, though, and thus automatically far more subjective than any of our other pages on this wiki, I do find it interesting to see what the rest of the hivemind has to say about a particular fic. Gives me a more detailed picture of whether or not I'd enjoy reading it - which is, again, the purpose of this page; to suggest really good fanfics that the rest of us might wish to peruse.
I disagree with dropping the comments sections, as (at least on this page) there's several fics where the comments say more about the plot than the synopsis. Also, at least for me, the comments are a gauge as to whether or not I might enjoy a fic, in the same way that reviews are a gauge as to whether or not I might enjoy a movie. As I understand it, the Comments field is a standard formatting fixture for all the fan fic pages on TV Tropes; just dropping it arbitrarily might ruffle feathers, especially since someone created a brouhaha on the Ranma One Half page simply by cutting the Sturgeon's Law comment. Off the top of my head, the only feasible replacement would be some kind of positive/negative voting system, much like that used for crowners in the forums, but I don't think that would work for multiple instances on a page.
well I wouldn't want the comments section removed on just this one page, I would (just as my own personal opinion and not something I would ever take action over without consensus) like to see it removed or revamped entirely from the template. But that is just my personal wishlist-cum-pipedream.
I do think that it should be a lot briefer than it is though. It is way beyond conversation on page and approaching wall of text on some items. That is why I say we should have a three sentence limit on comments, for clarity and conciseness.
Like I say, my opinion only.
Fast Eddie has set up a new feature that will allow us to add reviews to the fan fic suggestions. The code is still in the testing phase, to my understanding, but will go into place fairly soon and will be used in place of the comments sections that are on the recs right now. There may also be a major natter culling, so if you have any comments on the page and you want to preserve them, you may want to rewrite them so they're more like actual reviews or they stand a good chance of being wiped for good.
EDIT: Crap, this was supposed to be its own topic. Oh well.
Wondering, does Blue Toast's epic-length crossover Savage Overture (NGE and Tenchi Muyo) rate a mention on this rec page? I loved it back on Evafics.org before it was removed, and now its hosted on Blue Toast's own site... though its been a while since i checked it out...
Go ahead and put in a link; if anyone's read it, I'm sure they'll leave a comment.
I've given The Open Door its own entry under Mega Crossover, but since I haven't read it, I'm hoping that some people who have can put in comments, and/or edit the entry for Thousand Shinji to move those comments to The Open Door's entry. I've also blanket-borrowed the recommendations from TS for TOD; please strike your name if you don't want this.
Is chosen still being updated? It was last updated september 09.
Perhaps it should be marked dead...? (author does not seem to have any indicators of recent activity either)
I think that Once More With Feeling has largely gone dead too. Since I'm no expert, what's the official opinion on this?
I wrote to OMwF's author a while back, and he said that he was working on new material...but it has been a while, hasn't it? I hate to call any fic dead unless the author's made it clear that it won't be continued (such as The Open Door), but calling them "ongoing" seems to be misleading...maybe we can come up with a new term.
Dormant perhaps? Like volcanoes, they look dead, but could erupt at any time.
I agree with the above. Dormant is good.
I like dormant. Thirded.
Although I think something needs to be written on page to indicate the difference between dormant and dead, somewhere.
Alright, I've run with this idea. I don't have time to check all the fics, but if I've goofed any that I've changed, go ahead and put them to the correct status.
If the author is still active but the fic in question is not really being updated, I'd consider it ongoing, so I'll just make that edit.
EDIT: but I'm new to this so if anyone disagrees, feel free to revert.
I disagree; the author may be active as hell, but if the fic in question isn't getting updated, then calling it ongoing is a little misleading.
I think this is surprising enough to note in another post.
Crazy-88, the author of OMWF, had a profile update on ff.net. Just a few days ago as of this post. Maybe OMWF is coming back?
He posted at Spacebattles.com that a new chapter was coming fairly soon, but let's hold up on changing the status until it actually hits.
Can you link the post? I've been unable to find it by googling.
As of 8/18/2010, Crazy-88's profile on ff.net says that OMWF should be updated within the next couple of weeks.
And as of Sept 26 he reaffirms that he's working on his next (yet unposted) chapter.
What's being worked on? Chosen or Once More With Feeling?
Whoops sorry, I was referring to omwf.
chosen has started updating again!
WHAT IS THIS!?
I put in the descriptions since the folder titles don't allow wiki links anymore. Feel free to rewrite as needed.
Is this the right place to ask where I might find a fic that isn't on this list? If not, what page or forum would be the right place to ask:
I'm looking for a very vaguely-remembered fic that involved: Shinji & Asuka getting together (can't remember of pregnancy was involved or not); Asuka's beloved aunt Heidi becoming part of the group; and Asuka's father and stepmother being Grade-S assholes that even Gendo defends Asuka from.
I think the fic you are after is Father by Lord Talon. But I could be wrong. On the off chance, anyone remember a Ranma/Eva x-over where Yui yanks Ranma out of canon to replace Toji as the fourth child?
Well.. are you thinking of Tides by Bain?
or if in the fic, there's a romance between Asuka and Ranma, it might be Alternate Future, but then you'd only find it on the Way Back machine...
and then there's Angel of Light by weebee, where Ranma gets possessed by Yui.
Its not Angel of Light or Tides, I'll have a look at Way Back Machine for that other one you mention though. Thank you.
The one I'm remembering, but not finding is that Yui reaches out from the core of Unit One, and yanks Ranma into the future/Alternate universe to prevent Toji from becoming the Fourth Child and prevent Bardiel from taking over Unit 03. Oh and Unit 03's "soul" becomes sentient and gets a crush on Ranma.
Alternate future is a bit more Ah Megumi-sama based, so its probably not it... ppl think yui summoned him, and he becomes the fourth child, and stuff like that. there's a link with a .gz download on Rakahl or whaterver its called.
it fits, i'm just not sure of the "unit 3 gets crush on ranma" part, as some chappies are probably missing
Someone at 188.8.131.52 keeps removing comments on S&WH40k, despite rebukes. What should be done?
Put a request in the Wiki Talk forum for that IP to be banned, explaining the trolling.
the same on Ask The Tropers usually attracts Fast Eddie's attention too.
I wanted to throw out a reformatting idea. In regards to the last discussion about the authors section, I was thinking that the fics listed in that section could be moved into the appropriate listings and the Authors list consist of links to the authors' FF.net pages (or whatever's appropriate) and short descriptions of what makes the authors worth mentioning. Yea/nay?
I'll take silence as consent. LMK if I screw anything up.
...and that's all my sleep-deprived brain can come up with for now.
RE: removing Serial Ravist. His fics are good, but part of the intent of the Authors section is to list authors who have multiple Eva fics beyond what are posted here on the page, as well as authors' websites outside Fan Fiction.net. Since Ravist only has the two Eva fics to his credit, this is kinda superfluous.
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How well does it match the trope?