NATTER ALERT!

Violent Glaswegian has a real life section..should it?

There is a thread for Real Life sections here.

this thread?

Edit: I see it's already been posted there... I'll just keep the link here for anyone who might come across this conversation with the same question.

edited 27th Jan '13 11:26:02 PM by nemui10pm

Übermensch has natter/indentation and namespacing problems that should be fixed, but it's locked, and also a HUGE article.

We can create Sandbox.Ubermensch, scrub that of natter, and ask it to be swapped in.

The Heroes entry from Who Is This Guy Again is very nattery and pure Conversation In The Main Page (fifth bullet points? Really?). Could someone who knows the series fix it? For reference, this is the entry:

• Heroes: Noah Bennett, Claire 'The Cheerleader' Bennett's adoptive father, though he became a major character well into the series, was originally a menacing "government conspiracy" type figure. "HRG" was coined by Tim Kring and used in the original pilot script, so as not to give away the reveal that he's Claire's father. This eventually stuck with the fans.
  • The series has a habit of being reticent with the names of the morally ambiguous Company operatives. Neither Eden McCain nor Bob Bishop is named in their first appearances and HRG didn't get a first name till the very end of season one.
    • A funny example of this trope, seeing as the past 3 years were spent hearing everyone call the Haitian... 'The Haitian.' As soon as the series names him, every character in the series starts using his real name in all references to him. More than likely, the writers just couldn't think of a name until season four.
      • Perhaps Claire (who was the first person to say his name) asked him and then shared with everyone?
        • To be fair, there have been a few time skips in-between the seasons, and several characters are related to one-another. Its not unfeasible that they learnt it off-screen.

edited 22nd Feb '13 7:31:23 PM by nemui10pm

Artistic License – Nuclear Physics needs big help. I would do it, but I am not sure if I can use my usual methods in a page of a topic I am interested in.

Super-Persistent Predator (a predator relentlessly pursues the heroes) seems to have a pretty big natter problem. It starts off with people thinking the trope is inherently bad, and therefore always needs in-story justification to be a "good" example. This results in all sorts of arguments about which example fits, and which don't. Since I haven't seen or read all of these works, I will need some help with this.

Seconding Artistic License – Nuclear Physics. It's been on my to-do list for a while but I just haven't had the time/sanity to fix it.

edited 28th Feb '13 1:57:27 PM by Katsuhagi

Small Reference Pools. It was brought to my attention at fixing Zero Context Example thread.

Some sections of that article are a mess. It has lots of natter instead of focusing on stereotypical portrayal of said things in fiction. There are even four asterisks sometimes.

I tried to fix something but it's just too long an article. Have a look, and please consider providing context for some of the zero context entries. Proper Example Indentation is also not followed.

edited 10th Mar '13 3:38:04 PM by XFllo

Flanderization has attracted natter and non-examples, does someone have time to take a poke at it?

The Woobie. I skimmed through Live-Action TV and Film sub-pages, but I suppose there will be similar issues in most of them. Example Indentation needs help there as well.

edited 2nd Apr '13 1:35:50 AM by XFllo

I think it's been here before but Supernatural has issues. Mostly to do with Ship-to-Ship Combat conversations it seems.

Note to self: remember wiki-linking on one word.

edited 2nd Apr '13 5:58:03 PM by emeriin

The Woobie's one of those articles that are perpetually causing problems, but are too large to fix easily. I would say a cleanup thread would be needed to scrub the article. That said, I'll see if I can find some time to get rid of the more obvious natter.

Courtesy link: HoYay.Supernatural. Yes, it's come up before, and someone did at least get rid of most of First Person. But it's a long page and, frankly, still a nattery, poorly-indented mess.

edited 2nd Apr '13 5:49:05 PM by nemui10pm

It's pity that people always seem desperate to ADD something. Even though it's so much better when the page looks pretty. Way better tribute to your favourite show IMHO. Way better than having natter with four (!) asterisks. I never feel like reading those articles.

EDIT: I cut a lot of bad stuff at TV wobbie subpage. Though I left Battlestar Galactica Reimagined be as is, as I don't want to read spoilers. Many examples need cuts from fans or viewers of the show — some are way too long or mention every bad thing from every episode, and there are some Zero Context Examples as well.

edited 2nd Apr '13 8:41:44 PM by XFllo

Sherlock's subpages are almost as bad as Supernatural's - I should be able to help a little more since I actually watch the show, but Fridge.Sherlock is rather horrible.

There's an unnecessary book of natter in some parts on the John Cena YMMV page:

[QUOTE] Designated Hero / Jerk Sue: Arguably pops up every now and then. His recent treatment of Otunga came off as unnecessarily bullying seeing as how he'd already beaten him and wasn't even proving a point to The Nexus, who clearly didn't care about what he was doing. Then again, as Otunga had massive amounts of X-Pac Heat at the time, there weren't that many people that had a problem with seeing him get beat down. He even F-U'ed Teddy Long on Smack Down! once as a babyface, again for no real reason - although Cena's persona was much more of a tweener back then as opposed to the white-meat babyface he's portrayed as nowadays. Then there's his history with women who've been associated with Edge.

He used to hit Lita with the F-U during his original feud with Edge (though she was interfering with his matches and the live audience didn't seem to care), as well as insinuate in crude jokes that she somehow had any number of sexually transmitted diseases despite the fact that she had only ever been with Matt Hardy, Kane (Kayfabe only), and Edge, none of whom have given any indication they've contracted an STD to this day. His first such rib at Lita occurred before their feud even began, in which he claimed she gave him gonorrhea by shaking his hand. It should be noted that Cena and Lita are friends in real life. It should also be noted that Lita was a Heel at the time, and quite a vindictive one at that. Vickie Guerrero, both during and after her "marriage" to Edge, cannot be seen in the ring with Cena without enduring trollish fat jokes. Consider the fact that any excess weight on her person was probably picked up while mourning over Eddie in 2005, and that considerably much of that has been dropped again over the years. Eve Torres, who, while not linked to Edge romantically in or our of character, has made media appearances with Edge in outside events. One week after Eve and Cena kissed seemingly in the heat of the moment after he saved her from Kane for the 30th time right in front of Zack Ryder, Cena overheard her out herself to the Bella Twins as a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing. In the process of flatly telling her off in the ring when she tried to "explain" it away, he not only went straight back to the disease card after she tried to kiss him again, he used the situation to throw an early punchline at the Rock.

As far as other situations go there's the aforementioned Eve kissing incident where he blatantly reciprocated despite the fact she was (seemingly at the time) the girlfriend/object of desire of his best friend Zack Ryder…right in front of Ryder. When The Big Show was fired by John Laurinaitis he was nowhere to be seen as Big Show literally begged for his job, degrading himself in the process, while later that night Cena came out and spent the better part of 20 minutes acting like a buffoon towards Laurinaitis (this would later be the exact reason for Show's most recent heel turn…and who could blame him?). After getting fired during the Nexus angle he got involved in a parking lot brawl with the group while other wrestlers came to his aid. He was subsequently re-hired and in retaliation the Nexus began targeting the wrestlers who helped Cena... while Cena never repaid them by coming to THEIR aid. As someone in Punchsport Pagoda put it: John Cena is a horrible friend. In regards to Big Show, even Michael Cole confronted Cena about this face-to-face. Which caused Cena, the young and in shape and incredibly strong wrestler, to challenge Cole, the pudgy middle-aged announcer, to a match later on in the show that basically consisted of bullying and torturing him. Sure Cole's a heel and was a bit of a jerk about it but still deciding you're going to beat up the out of shape announcer simply because he called you out on your actions is an incredibly dickish thing to do. For someone who claimed to "fight for all the boys in the back", he had no problem undercutting CM Punk's WWE Championship reign at Money in the Bank. Cena had main evented over Punk and the WWE title for every pay-per-view in 2012; the first few times facing the newly masked and heeled up Kane, the Rock, and Brock Lesnar, all marquee opponents of some sort, with the Rock match being a central thread, then later battling to get John Laurinaitis fired (and suceeding in two tries, though the quality of opposition leaves his main eventing those two shows highly suspect). Then came Money in the Bank. Cena had a "historic announcement" to make. What was that historic announcement? That he was entering the Money in the Bank ladder match. This only stuck because the Board of Directors wanted the WWE Championship MITB to be a match of former champions, but the result was the same; Cena main eventing instead of Punk's defense of his WWE title just because. Considering the World Heavyweight title's Money in the Bank match had four first-time contestant and none of them even got close to being treated as notable for it, this had an egregious case of "because it's John Cena" written all over it. It almost seemed like Laser-Guided Karma that Big Show cost him his cash-in match. After all, he did say he wanted to make history. Now he's the first guy to cash in and fail to win a title. And, after a successful Punk title defense in a 3-way against both Show and Cena, it…sort of continues. Now, according to Cena's passive-aggressive plea for Punk to pick him for the Night of Champions title shot that Punk gets to choose an opponent for, literally any other choice, any other opponent in the WWE, means Punk has no respect for the WWE Championship or for himself. Again, this is the same guy who just months ago was talking about how he fights for all the boys in the back. And now, CM Punk's entire title reign has been irrelevant, all people remember about Punk anymore is the June 27 pipe bomb and Money in the Bank 2011, and Punk has cheated to keep the title through much of his 300-plus-day reign and thus deserves no respect. Continuing on this storyline even further, Cena now keeps being put in matches for Punk's title, which Punk points out that he's already beaten Cena multiple times, in fact, Punk's beaten Cena nearly every time they've faced each other. Punk even questions why, if Cena keeps losing, does he keep being handed title matches, making it look like Cena will just keep challenging Punk as many times as he needs to in order to win. Another example shows up post TLC-2012. AJ screwed Cena over in the Mit B ladder match, not Ziggler. The following night, when Ziggler has minded his own business all night and going to cash in the MITB, Cena shows up out of nowhere, unprovoked, and beats down Ziggler. His only motivation is because he was angry. This is INCREDIBLY GRATING because Cena runs around talking about Rise Above Hate and it was the absolute opposite to it. Ziggler had done a lot to get Cena angry at him: his part in the Cena/AJ scandal, attacking him in the locker room when he was dragging AJ off him and attacking his already injured leg. And any claims Ziggler might have made about him not being in league with AJ to cost Cena the ladder match became pretty suspect when the two of them kissed on national tv the following night. Acknowledging all of that, though, what exactly did Cena get screwed out of? A win against Ziggler? He had still gotten to beat the hell out of Ziggler and even make Ziggler tap (which didn't win him the match due to it being a ladder match, but you'd think that would still be satisfying after the locker room thing). His chance to hold another MITB briefcase? He's a guy with multiple world championship reigns to his name already; why does he need another one at the expense of somebody who's never won the belt before? Rise Above Hate does seem like the opposite of "Stay violently angry at a guy and run in on his matches because you lost to him." Sure, his reaction of smirking it off one moment and trying to beat the hell out of Ziggler the next isn't exactly consistent with his credo, but anger is an appropriate emotion for getting cost a chance at a guaranteed title shot anytime you want. More jarring, however, is the fact that Cena got this match in the first place. It would be the second straight pay-per-view main event/at least tantamount title match that Mr. Hustle-Loyalty-Respect, Rise Above Hate, Be a Star, insert slogan here, received not by earning it in any sort of match or even by making a statement, but through the "virtue" of Vince Mc Mahon publicly strong-arming Vickie Guerrero into making the match—scenes that not only reflect horribly on Mc Mahon as a face and the WWE product as a whole, but don't exactly make Cena look great either when he doesn't even acknowledge this with so much as an Irony joke the whole time Ziggler and JBL keep pointing out that he was handed this match. His treatment of AJ isn't much better. sure, she cost him the briefcase, but he dealt with it by using the same methods he used against Lita, Vickie or Eve in the past - indirectly calling her a slut and suggesting she had sex with a dog. Alberto Del Rio, who's recently at least teased a Heel Face Turn, hits Santa Claus with a car. Pretty evil thing to do…except for fact it was a legitimate accident. (Nevermind the fact that camera manipulation combined with Del Rio's driving speed clearly gives away that in reality Santa very obviously jumped onto the car.) He even outright repeats over and over that it was an accident. Cena doesn't care and, after leading the locker room in turning on Del Rio, beats the shit out of him in a street fight made by usually-reasonable Booker T (and on the wrong show at that), claiming he was fighting for Santa. Made even worse because the episode's "Santa" was actually Mick Foley — whose pain threshold is documented to be FAR beyond getting "run over" by a slow-moving car. Which was revealed after "Saint Mick" came out and helped Cena win the match. The whole thing came across as a bad Christmas prank on Del Rio for no reason, especially after, again, ADR just started showing a more honorable side. Granted, that episode was taped in advance before his Heel Face Turn (which did stick, btw), but that still leaves open the fact that Del Rio had already been the more sympathetic figure in a feud despite being heel earlier in the year, namely his feud with Sheamus for the World Heavyweight Championship. From both an entertainment quality standpoint and from a Be a Star top face morality standpoint, Cena may have achieved the apex of this trope on January 21, 2013, when he closed out the go-home RAW before the Royal Rumble with one of the absolute worst main event promos in wrestling history. With constant hype for his address appearing throughout the night, on the same night in which the table was laid out for via several quality segments for Rock vs. Punk—a match to determine who Cena would main event Wrestle Mania 29 against for the WWE Championship if he were to win the Royal Rumble match—and with a lukewarm reception from the audience in San Jose telling him he had the opportunity to either win or lose them with his promo, Cena proceeded to come out and address the WWE Universe by…picking out a child, a woman, and a man from the audience, to troll about how they supposedly spend their Sundays. He first picked out a little boy in a plain black tee. To begin with he talked as if he had any jurisdiction in the boy's life by checking him about school and homework, then made a point of saying kids these days don't go outside or use the phone in order to speculate that that's the hardcore gamer always beating him in Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 online, before apparently revealing his username to be "skidmarks187". Aside from the fact he just insinuated one of the children he's geared to appeal to regularly enjoys playing a simulated war video game, most likely there is someone with that PS 3 ID or Xbox gamertag somewhere, but it's not Cena and he probably just ruined that person's gaming life while claiming this kid ruined his. He next targeted a blonde woman wearing a hat and a white shirt, seemingly hitting on her but not showing her much respect in the process. He speculated that she spends her Saturday nights getting drunk at clubs with her girlfriends, starts her Sundays recovering from the ensuing hangover and posting pictures of the previous night's clubbing, then goes to the gym and posts a pic of herself in a provocative yoga position, goes back home and listens to Taylor Swift on You Tube to get over a recent breakup, then listens to Nicki Minaj because during her drunken girls' night out escapades the previous night, she may have discovered a man she could have a future with. Leaving aside the Unfortunate Implications regarding Nicki Minaj's music being in any way productive when it comes to future relationsips, the "young lady" he just depicted as a club rat for the sake of his routine appeared to be about his age at least (though she definitely aged well) and two of the three young adult boys she was sitting next to looked like they could've very well been her sons. And let's not even mention that the man she supposedly met… …was Cena's third roast victim, a portly man with a goatee on the other side of the front row wearing a Paul Heyman Guy T-shirt. He claimed that this guy wakes up on Sunday afternoons covered in bodily fluids, with a receipt in his back pocket for 168 blow-up dolls (with only one left) and two Jägerbombs. He also accused the man of having a Judge Joe Brown tattoo on his shoulder and of posting a photo of his privates on Facebook a la Brett Favre. Basically, he painted the man as being a sexually frustrated and incontinent nerd with no life. Which, perhaps uncoincidentally, is what many people tend to think most critical internet fans are. It was only after embarrassing himself and his handpicked victims for at least five minutes on end that Cena finally got to the point; that this coming Sunday was different because it was the Royal Rumble. He began to talk about how that made this particular Sunday different for members of the "WWE Universe", trying to make it sound like something akin to the Super Bowl, but without once mentioning any of the many available facts surrounding the Rumble's mythos or acknowledging his 29 opponents in any way, shape, or form, before declaring that he will win the Royal Rumble. The segment (and the idea that Cena's expected to win the Rumble in spite of it) was immediately pounded on by Cena's detractors as the walking embodiment of why they can't stand him, with even some of his fans admitting that it completely sucked and/or that his character has become problematic. In fact his performance would become a topic of discussion in the locker room backstage after the show, and the general consensus was not at all positive. It's also worth noting that, despite what WWE editing and propaganda may try to have you believe (their You Tube channel's posted cut of Cena's promo was edited down to four sentences, for example), the San Jose crowd for the most part refused to accept his designation as their hero. His statement that "The whole world will find out what I already know!" was met with "Cena Sucks" chants which WWE tried to drown out by having mics pick up a couple of kids crying out "Let's go Cena!", before he finished that thought by saying he will win the Royal Rumble…and got booed for it. When other wrestlers began to mercifully interrupt Cena after that point, the Prime Time Players—the only heels whose music actually played during this sequence—arguably got the biggest pop out of all the interrupters, and Darren Young's line of "Ain't nobody got time for 'dat!", while intended as a response to Cena and Sheamus's claims that they'll win the Rumble, was even seen as a fitting remark toward Cena's insulting diatribe. And of course, Cena won the Royal Rumble. The following night he proceeds to squash Cody Rhodes and bury the WHC. February 18, 2013. When Punk interrupts Cena's promo time to challenge him for his Wrestle Mania title shot that he won at the Rumble, Cena utters the line during his counter-address that "For once, it's not about CM Punk." Cue shitstorm because Cena's about to main event his sixth Wrestle Mania, Punk has never main evented Wrestle Mania, and Cena, as well documented above, has been the guy main eventing on pay-per-view for most of 2012 despite his Broken Base getting worse than ever and Punk being champion the entire year. [/QUOTE]

Is it all right to cut at least half of this if not more? Plenty of these are outdated.

Holy hell, talk about Wall of Text.

My first inclination is to burn the whole thing down, and it has nothing to do with my opinion of Cena (don't follow WWE, haven't since before Hulk Hogan first turned Heel).

Not a practical solution, granted...

Cut the whole thing. It is a YMMV entry, so its inclusion is not entirely necessary. If you feel like it; add a MUCH shorter version of it in your own words.

At least, that is what I would do.

OW GAWD! I think I literally had an Oh, Crap! face when I saw that post #1342. Even if that was separated by paragraphs, it has no place to be at the wiki as an example. There is no way I am reading it. BURN IT!

Edit: I actually had a quick look at the YMMV.John Cena sub-page. It appears it has some sub-bullets, but it looks like it's in conversation mode anyway, which is a no-no. And I still refuse to read a page that is written like that.

Please, IM Boring, if you are familiar with the issue, re-write it. You know, Clear, Concise and Witty mantra. Plus Brevity Is Wit.

edited 9th Apr '13 11:49:08 PM by XFllo

Honestly YMMV pages tend to attract natter.

Chowder needs a natter clean-up.

Crossover Ship.

I just wanted to cross-wick something from my current obsession that I keep Entry Pimping... The page really looks bad. This troper, disorganized, potholes, fan myopia, ignoring example indentation, weblinks only, bucketloads of NATTER.

Anyone who really likes Fan Fic could have a look at that. My Super OCD might steer me that way as well.

edited 16th May '13 7:02:04 PM by XFllo

Do Androids Dream?

Natter warning in the Real Life section.

I'd just axe the whole second example. It adds nothing.

edited 6th Jun '13 12:16:37 PM by Larkmarn