Switch with a redirect...?: Honest Johns Dealership

This is a character trope with the name of a location. I find it kind of awkward to deal with because of that. We have some redirects which actually are characters... Any reason to not switch the main with one of those?

(Apologies if this was brought up in the original naming discussion; it's apparently dropped off the forum title search.)

The trope was originally called Honest John's Dealership, but it was renamed coz, well, most people had no clue who Honest John's Dealership WAS. I kinda like the current name, yes, it not fully precise, but the dealership part helps show you what it is about (Honest John just sounds like a name... someone who Will Not Tell a Lie?) And Ultimate Salesman is too generic. Honest John's Dealership strikes the right cord, and eitherway, even if it was a location, you can't have the location without it being manned by the archetype.

Eitherway, you'd need to show serious misuse too convince me that this needs renaming (again)

Switching with a redirect counts as a renaming now? I didn't think it did.

I was just finding it awkward calling, say, Quark an "Honest John's Dealership." Still, the "none of the redirects are good enough" argument is just fine, if that's the way it is.

Quark is an example of Honest John's Dealership.

Nothing hard about that :) Alternatively, use redirects or PotHoles if you need to link to the trope in a sentence rather than in the bullet format of our pages.

Quark, like most Ferengi, is driven to accumulate profit, willing to go at any length to make a sale like by inflating prices, or lying on the merchandise.

This title seems somewhat misleading to me too. Quark is a dealer, if he had premises that would be a dealership. I had been wondering why the title didn't match the text for this trope.

edited 9th Oct '10 4:01:48 AM by Camacan

I'm not pushing for a rename, but if you want to convert it from a location to a character, why not Honest John Dealer?

So the character type is basically your typical salesman? Is there an adjective we could pair with "Salesman"?

The term dealership can be used to describe both a location where goods are sold and the party or business which sells out of that location. I don't really see that much of a problem with this staying as is.

edited 9th Oct '10 5:17:58 AM by KnownUnknown

Really? I've never seen that definition before. It certainly doesn't seem common enough, at least in my mind, to impact the discussion.

But that is a new fact learned. :) I'll have to look it up...

ETA: Looked it up on dictionary.com. Not there, but not saying it's not true. Just that I'm not sure how common a definition that is.

EATA: To clarify, I don't think the definition of "dealership" as extending to an individual person is hugely common. I'm not saying that it's not possible to define it as a group of people or what have you. :)

edited 9th Oct '10 5:22:11 AM by Leaper

^ It's the way I generally see it used, but just to make sure looked up.

From dictionary.com.

deal·er·ship    –noun

1. authorization to sell a commodity: He got the dealership for the area after a long investigation into his credit status.

2. a sales agency or distributor having such authorization.

The Webster's definition is the same basic thing, and Oxford apparently just has dealership as a synonym/derivative of "dealer."

edited 9th Oct '10 5:25:15 AM by KnownUnknown

Yes, that was the definition I was thinking of... I interpreted their use of "sales agency or distributor" as talking about large groups/companies, not individuals (i.e. "distributor" as in "Amway," not "distributor" as in "Bob down the street"). Which is what I meant by my previous post. :)

Can I suggest a redirect? Amusingly enough, this type (especially if selling cars) is often called Fast Eddie (as in Fast Eddie'sDealership).

Fast Eddie is also the site owner, so prolly not good.

Don't Explain the Joke

Fast Eddie's Trope and Wiki Word Emporium. All Wiki Words guaranteed fresh, though some may be out of stock. Tropes may be slightly foxed, but well loved. A few may have fallen off the back of some 16th century play that hardly anyone has ever heard of, but a bit of shine, maybe a new perspective, and they're good as new! How do we do it, folks? Volume! Located conveniently At the Crossroads of Snark and Pedantry Lane, ask about our frequent customer discount card!

edited 10th Oct '10 12:07:55 AM by Daremo

That's a great descriptor.

I actually think the "Dealership" on the end is important. Makes it more clear what it is about then any of the other redirects.

Although I could get behind renaming it Fast Eddies Dealership.

If calling Quark a "dealership" seems odd, then use it for Quark's Bar: "Quark is the proprietor of Quark's Bar, a subsidiary of Honest John's Dealdership.

Nothing wrong with adding a redirect of Honest John The Dealer though. Changing the name outright is pointless however.

Wow, that actually was made a redirect. I feel proud.

This post was thumped by the Eldritch Flyswatter of Horror

Let's... prove misuse. Step one.

There's nothing wrong with this trope's name, it's one of the better named tropes on this wiki. Prove it's being misused, let's not change everything just cause we can.

It's not an 'average salesman', read the trope. It's a salesman of goods of a dubious nature. Usually, he calls himself something like 'Honest John'.

The usual American portrayal of this guy is as a sleazy used car salesman who will do or say anything to make the sale, including using Blatant Lies. ...Especially using Blatant Lies.

edited 11th Oct '10 11:03:21 AM by savage

So switching with a redirect (which necessarily implies that the original main name becomes a redirect) is considered "changing a name"?

And I never said it was being misused, which is why I didn't propose a straight out change as I understand it in the first place. Just that... Oh, it's all in the OP. :P

Short answer: Yes. It has always been that way.

Longer answer: All having a good redirect as a switch candidate means is that there may not be a need for an alt name crowner. It still requires consensus to change the main title.

edited 11th Oct '10 4:57:58 PM by Elle

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