During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Stein (why is Werewolf Nazis a thing?)
as for Nessiah, unless someone does a more thorough examination, just remove it (although I'm scared it will just be put on the floor unless someone takes it).
BTW, I found this Deviantart Gravity Falls webcomic that I think that version of Bill Cipher could count, but the only issue is that the story is all over the place (I don't mean that it doesn't have a linear narrative, it's just that it's told out of order). If anyone who could help in any capacity PM me.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I think this trope is the easiest to do, but the hardest to do right.
Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 22nd 2020 at 8:16:09 AM
The Nazi Werewolf isn't a deeply layered character with standards and loved ones? What! Yes there lol
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I mean the dude's a Nazi Werewolf, that's already a pretty sweet villain even without being complex.
Edited by 43110 on Nov 22nd 2020 at 11:50:17 AM
to Gogo Vandire and Dr. William Stein.
Cut Nessiah/Aries.
Easy to Stein
Re: Nazi Werewolves
Most likely because of the combo of one of Hitler’s military bases and a strategy of his both being named “Werwolf”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werwolf
Yeah, it's a pretty common combo due to exactly that.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
By the way, for Heller, I suggest replacing the Big Bad pothole with The Emperor, since he rules the Heller empire and all.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
to Wolfenstein.
Yea to Stein.
Edited by Riley1sCool on Nov 22nd 2020 at 10:25:55 AM
to Maloney, Burke, Swey, Cutz, Stein and Vandire
I think that's everyone but I might have missed one.
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Goku Black
stein
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cutz, Vandire and Dr. Stein. Cut Nessiah.
Yes to Stein.
The Draftsman of Doom
Speaking of Nazis, I'd appreciate input on this effort to create a Useful Notes page on Josef Mengele before I swap it with UsefulNotes.Josef Mengele. Since he has a number of Monster incarnations, I felt that it would be worth mentioning that Mengele is very close to having his own Useful Notes page.
A Lright, I haven't finished my Buffyverse marathon but I would like to bring a reevaluation.
From Angel "In the dark"
- Complete Monster: Marcus is hired by Spike to extract information from Angel on the whereabouts of the Gem of Amarra, a magical ring that gives Vampires complete invulnerability from harm and their usual weaknesses, such as sunlight. A man obsessed with the "art" of torture, Marcus is rumored to have inspired some of the more favored and gruesome techniques used through history. Serenely, playing Mozart in the background, Marcus falls into a rhythm of torturing Angel, impaling him with hot pokers then asking Angel what he truly wants. When Angel refuses to answer, the cycle begins again, each time with Marcus hoping to truly break Angel and lay his soul bare. He also burns Angel with sunlight and forces him to suspend himself in the air with his chains in order to avoid being incinerated. Marcus is also a pedophile who specializes in feeding on and molesting children, and, after Marcus betrays Spike and takes the ring for himself, the first thing he does with his newfound invulnerability is attempt to murder a group of girl scouts, only being stopped due to the timely arrival of Angel.
I've seen the episode and I... can't say I'm impressed by him. To sum, Spike exposits that Marcus invented tortures technics that Spike himself admits not knowing which ones wich squarely falls into Offstage Villainy IMO. We are told that children are his favorite prey (which btw Spike finds it more amusing that anything) but unless I miss something, he's not explicitely said to be a pedophile.
Harming children isn't unique in the verse. Very few antagonists have standard about killing them even among non-C Ms. Even putting aside that teenagers are fodder all the time, we have Spike murdering the Annointed One, Drusilla and Darla who also both love eating toddlers, the Mayor who sacrifices babies to a demon snake, Adam who vivisects a boy for fun, an assassin who targets blind kids and so forth.
Basically all Marcus does onscreen is:
- Nastily torturing Angel (On Spike's order)
- Attacking a small group of children (about 6)
With only around 7 attempted victims, I feel like Marcus falls short of the Buffyverse's jacked up standard.
Even in the first season of Angel alone, we have CM Darrin Mac Namara a mere human with more confirmed victims than Marcus, an abusive mother who sealed her son in the walls, a demon who impregnates women with their spawns resulting in the mothers death, a demon who mutilates his pairs and sells body parts in auctions, Jeremy Renner as a prolific serial killer, demon nazis who advocate genocide for the half-breeds, the aforementionned blind assassin (who's assisted by Wolfram & Hart),...
Obviously, if you decide to keep him I'm fine and willing to hear counter-arguments but I make my case for a cut.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Huh, if the torture stuff's not onscreen, he may have to go.
You're right about hurting kids being common; there's even one-shot villain Der Kinderstod.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Here's the final stuff. ~Imperial Majesty XO, got any potholes for these or the others?
- Neopets:
- Dr. Frank Sloth is a Mad Scientist with dreams of Neopian-domination. Using horrific mutant experimentation, brainwashed and kidnapped Grundo slaves, and his massive fleet of spaceships and loyal soldiers, Sloth's multiple attempts at taking over Neopia have been alongside acts of cruelty. Death, whether of a brave Neopian trying to stall his ship, a group of TNT staff-members stuck at a ski lodge, or of four innocent children in an elevator, is something Sloth happily allows, whether by his own hand or thanks to one of his creations—creations he also doesn't care much about, as the staff-killing robot was later blown up, and the kid-trapping AI lonely and abandoned on a spaceship.
- "Curse of Maraqua": Captain Scarblade is a vicious and tyrannical pirate captain hellbent on destroying the innocent city and citizens of Maraqua. Originally involved in the the pirate protection racket and destructive whirlpool that left Maraqua as a ruin, Scarblade returned with his crew seven years later to attack Garin and the "Black Pawkeet" for daring to act on his territory. Realizing that Maraqua is rebuilding, Scarblade immediately decides to go and destroy it for a second time, as revenge for the city attempting to survive the first event. Kidnapping Garin's crew along with an island full of citizens to act as slave labor, Scarblade prepares to invade the city again, fully intending to make sure Maraqua is forever wiped off the map.
- "Lost Desert": Emperor Razul of Qasala is a power-hungry and eternal life seeking sorcerer who trapped his own city in a nightmarish curse before banished by the people of Sakhmet. Seeking his resurrection and revenge, Razul tricked his son Jazan into following a prophecy to save his people, which led to the prince desperately attempting to marry a Sakhmet princess at any cost and to the ensuing invasion of the neighboring city. Razul was resurrected once his son married Nabile, revealing that it was all just a ploy to gain immortality, and attempted to destroy not only Sakhmet with his magic, but the rest of Neopia as well. Cruel even to his own son and city, Razul cared for nothing except his own power and domination.
With it all laid out, I'm gonna say cut for Marcus. I guess you could make the case his onscreen torture establishes a pattern but I think it's too much of a stretch to say it shows him having the worst torture techniques in universe or anything of the like. The sleeper keeper Lighty found a while back seems eons nastier.
Cut Marcus. Seems to rely on “tell, don’t show”.
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut Marcus.
Goku Black
Cut Marcus.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Cut Marcus.
Also, G, Nessiah is a guy. I know, Dude Looks Like a Lady, haha.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.