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Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

    Effortpost template 
What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by nombretomado on Mar 31st 2020 at 8:15:08 AM

Aug 1st 2020 at 9:34:56 AM

[tup] to Doc Hawkins. Based on all the points raised by the people here and a bit of my own interpretation, I'll give a slight [tup] to Yami Bakura/The Spirit of the Ring. It does appear to be Pragmatic Villainy at play here.

[tdown] to Thomas Burns and Eustace Kidd. I'm not sure about cutting Walter Cole and how genuine there friendship was, so I'll give him a slight [tup]. [up] Based on what Lightysnake brought up, then [tdown] to Walter Cole too.

Happy birthday futuremoviewriter.

Edited by DrUnknown on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:42:15 AM

falcontalons The One-Punch Man
The One-Punch Man
Aug 1st 2020 at 9:37:24 AM

I'll flip to cutting Cole with Lightysnake's input, and I'll switch to abstain on Bakura.

I'm just a guy who's a hero for fun.
43110 You should start singing for yourself now. from Mars Relationship Status: Abstaining
You should start singing for yourself now.
Aug 1st 2020 at 9:45:01 AM

In general I'm leery of cuts along the lines of "Wasn't a complete jackass in the scene... that subtracts 0.0001% of monsterdom." A CM can have a thousand reasons to not partake in a particular crime. We have Knight Templar-types who won't commit rape out of their own devotion to purity but will happily torture and kill their victims; we've got people who think cannibalism is gross but you can easily make the point not partaking in such is a factor of health concerns or just disgust at... something that's gross. Yami Bakura is also happily manifesting within regular Bakura's body to use him for his diabolical schemes and lets him be subjected to Mind Rape.

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
Aug 1st 2020 at 9:47:41 AM

I think the issue is a great emphasis is put upon Bakura's pride rather than his standards. Marik spends the time being all "Oh, you can use the weak little boy puppet of yours." and his reaction is "fuck that"

But even despite that, Yami Bakura immediately forms a new, underhanded scheme using this situation

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:50:16 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.)
Aug 1st 2020 at 9:49:41 AM

I'm fine cutting Cole and Burns then.

CM Drafts; Pending CM Writeups
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Aug 1st 2020 at 9:56:29 AM

[tup] to Clancy and Fish, [tdown] to Cinder and Kidd, "keep" to Hawkins, "cut" to Cole and Burns. Abstain on Bakura.

43110 You should start singing for yourself now. from Mars Relationship Status: Abstaining
You should start singing for yourself now.
Aug 1st 2020 at 10:18:33 AM

Hmm... I haven't seen the movie but if the intent seems to be Cole like Burns as well beyond the point of something like The Man From Nowhere where the only argument to saying Jong-Seok cares for Man-Seok is through inference since they're brothers and Man-Seok seems to love him then I'm not down to leave it up. We didn't allow Akan from Hardcore Henry on the list despite his affections for his wife being much more just implied rather than outright like hers are for him.

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
Aug 1st 2020 at 10:21:01 AM

Incidentally, I do want to thank Pig Catapult. That was absolutely something we should discuss.

My next Tsushima post: The Mamushi brothers.

who are the Mamushis?

Taizo, Kichizo and Manzo Mamushi are a trio of thuggish slavers going back decades. The three traffic in slaves given to them by the Black Wolf and in other methods, such as other traders or abduction. The three are brutal and cruel masters, working and abusing their slaves, torturing and killing them. It is also strongly implied the three are serial rapists. Yuna mentions her terrible memories of one's hands, and another's breath...when she approaches their camp, she hyperventilates and freezes up. Yuna is a tough-as-nails thief who is never shown to be affected by anything else until later in the game so this is extremely harrowing.

Having allied witht he Mongols to enslave and kill their countrymen, slaves are worked, whipped, beaten, brutalized and murdered as the Mamushis are now given free reign in their cruelty by the local Mongol leader General Altan. Arriving at the farm, we see runaway slaves are regularly mutilated and executed, their heads left impaled as a warnings while many other bodies are left impaled about the plae....regular practices between the trio. Jin sneaks into the farm and in a mission where you can only kill the Mamushis by pure stealth, while not killing anyone else (it's hard), Jin finds them overseeing victims, plotting expansions, with one of the brothers having a woman in his tent to violate soon...Jin kills them and takes their heads to leave outside for the Mongols to find, only regretting that they deserved worse.

Heinousness?

Well over. Black Wolf distiguishes himself with the pedophilia, but the Mamushis buy his slaves and work them and the conditions are seen. It's bad. Really, really awful with vast levels and brutality, and they've only gotten worse sine the Mongols came. Easy pass.

Mitigating Qualities?

their character isn't rich. You see most everything through observation and they get some dialogue like Black Wolf...but there's no indication they care about one another or see themselves as anything but business partners. Now, Altan for the little we see him? Altan truly seems loyal to the Khan and states he kills in service to the 'Great Peace,' so I'm inclined to not discuss him for redeeming qualities, but the Mamushis are loyal to their bottom line alone.

Conclusion?

I'd say yes to the slavers.

falcontalons The One-Punch Man
therealjackieboy Master Con Artist from Austin, TX Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Master Con Artist
Aug 1st 2020 at 10:26:50 AM

From what Lighty said, cut Cole. At least we still got somebody approved from that glorious movie.

[tup] The Mamushi bros

Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 1st 2020 at 10:27:05 AM

Shout out to obscure cartoons nobody's ever heard of.
Michealthehero21 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Aug 1st 2020 at 10:36:17 AM

[tup] The Mamushi Brothers. As Jin Sakai stated, they deserved worse.

43110 You should start singing for yourself now. from Mars Relationship Status: Abstaining
You should start singing for yourself now.
Aug 1st 2020 at 10:37:25 AM

Yes to the brothers but Lighty how many villains are we looking at from this game?

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
Aug 1st 2020 at 10:38:49 AM

One more. Basically? 1)The big bad, 2) the quisling swordsman helping their armies run amok, 3) the pedophile child slaver 4) the slaver trio

There's like a bajillion sidequests and other quests with a host of baddies there.

43110 You should start singing for yourself now. from Mars Relationship Status: Abstaining
You should start singing for yourself now.
Aug 1st 2020 at 10:41:45 AM

Okay, I’ll wait for your final post.

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
Aug 1st 2020 at 10:42:55 AM

[tup] to Taizo, Kichizo and Manzo Mamushi.

[up][up] I figured this game would have one or two candidates, but I never suspected four keepers, let alone keepers with visceral crimes like pedophilia.

Edited by DrUnknown on Aug 1st 2020 at 10:45:32 AM

Ravok The Mountebank of Menace
The Mountebank of Menace
Aug 1st 2020 at 10:59:31 AM

'Yes' to Hawkins (Busey CMs are such a treat) and the Tsushima baddies thus far...'Cut' Cole and Burns, 'Keep' Yami Bakura

No to the One Piece baddie

Alrighty, so, I have recently went through the Kaiji manga after watching part of the anime years ago and enjoying it, and I'd like to talk about the the listed CM:

  • Kazutaka Hyōdō, a wealthy socialite and president of the financial consulting firm Teiai, is a man driven mad by money and power whose only enjoyment in life is to see the lower classes of society struggle for their lives and money in illegal gambling tournaments. In Part 1, Hyōdō has a group of his debtors gamble in a ship, collecting badges from each other. Those who lose all their badges are transferred to an underground mine where they are forced to work for their money in horrible conditions, most of them dying due to work-related injuries or breathing problems caused by the smoke. In Part 2, Hyōdō forces another group of debtors to walk on a narrow plank ten meters up the air, and to win, they have to push down others, breaking their bones while doing so. After Kaiji and a handful of others manage to walk on the other side, they are then forced on a similar plank which is electrified and hundreds of meters up the air. Kaiji, being the sole survivor of the second part, is then obliged to duel against Hyōdō's right-hand man, Yukio Tonegawa, and choose either his eye or eardrum as his stake. After Kaiji wins, Hyōdō proves how cruel he is to his subordinates, forcing Tonegawa to kneel for a minute on a scalding platform. Briefly appearing in Part 3, Hyōdō is seen drinking the blood of his victims, while treating his other subordinates with similar cruelty. A truly despicable old man, Hyōdō is the living incarnate of greed and cruelty in a world where people are willingly to do anything in order to pay back their debts.

I'll be straight up: Hyodo has a very good chance of getting cut at some point. Flashbacks later in the story beyond what the effortpost covered show that he once was a...ehhhhh moderately better person. He expresses eyebrow-raised concern over one of his sons playing with a toy that involves stabbing someone repeatedly, he seems somewhat concerned when his sons both fall into the ocean on a boat trip (though he then screams at them to walk it off and they just "got a little wet"), and his wife, Sophie, talked pretty damn harshly to him without repercussions, which, given Hyodo's notoriously Bad Boss inclinations, is notable. It's somewhat implied that something made Hyodo snap, and that's where his sadism and insane crimes come from.

Buuuuuuut I still think he can keep. For now. It was a one-time flashback that was focused on Sophie and the kids—not Hyodo—and by the present, Hyodo has never once mentioned nor even had a stray thought about his family, with it even being noted that Sophie died in a car crash some years ago that seemed a bit suspicious, so I think the ambiguity and minority of the information displayed thus far means he's fine Keeping ATM.

As for the reason I bring him up, it's the write-up...not only is it hella long, but it's also blatantly incorrect in noting that Hyodo drinks his victims' blood. He's drinking wine in the scene in referencee. He's still pulling a dick move by doing nasty things with the wine then making his minions drink from it—immediately ordering one be carted off and "punished" when he mildly hesitates—but it's not blood, so let's rectify the length and those inaccuracies...

  • Kazutaka Hyōdō is a sadistic and greedy monster of a man who orchestrates many of the horrors in the story to satisfy his own depraved love for seeing others suffer. Taking advantage of gamblers and other people in deep debt, Hyōdō offers them the chance to win their way out of debt by engaging in a variety of "games" that range from harmless card activities to tightrope walking across high buildings on electrified posts. Hyōdō forces the participants to risk body parts, organs, and even their very lives in service of his challenges, ensuring that the dozens of losers of his games either die in the process or are enslaved and worked in horrible conditions for years or until death, and doles out similar punishments to his own minions for often absurd reasoning. Hyōdō also subjects even the loyal Yukio Tonegawa to burning his head on a boiling plate for failure, corrupts his son Kazuya into becoming a similar monster as himself, and schemes to one day hold the key to survival for all life on Earth, planning to only save those who can pay him or who he will find amusement in tormenting.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 1st 2020 at 11:07:49 AM

I'm so...tingly. Like after a nice, relaxing round of shock therapy!
43110 You should start singing for yourself now. from Mars Relationship Status: Abstaining
You should start singing for yourself now.
Aug 1st 2020 at 11:06:52 AM

Greatly approve of the rewrite and here's another one I think could be trimmed down:

  • King Bradley/Pride is the military dictator of Amestris and one of the aforementioned Dante's most trusted homunculi. He is the mastermind behind the events that caused the genocide in Ishbal, and worse yet, repeats the same actions in Reole in order to lead his own nation in destruction. At one point, he even releases the infamous Mad Bomber Solf J. Kimblee from prison and unleashes him upon Reole citizens in order to take care of the deed as fast as possible. While mainly assisting Dante in her plans to create the Philosopher's Stone all over again, it is made clear that Bradley enjoys committing these deeds for the sake of "purifying" the population and expanding the country's territory. After Martel finds out about Bradley's true identity, he proceeds to murder her cold-bloodedly in front of Al in order to keep her silent. In the final arc, Bradley plays a sadistic cat-and-mouse game with Roy Mustang, torturing him both physically and emotionally, even bringing up the tragic fact that he couldn't save his best friend from a certain death. When his own son steps in the hopes of helping his father, Bradley strangles him to death while ranting about being an agent of God.

Instead:

  • This version of Führer King Bradley is the Homunculus Pride and Dante's right-hand alongside Envy. Masterminding the genocide in Ishbal and repeating the atrocity in Reole, Bradley even unleashes the a psychopath to hasten the second blood conflict. Using his position as Führer to help Dante create conflict in the hopes of a desperate alchemist creating another Philosopher's Stone, Bradley also enjoys the power of taking territory and murders any who find out about him Homunculus origins. Tormenting Roy Mustang when the two face off in the final arc, Bradley even strangles his own son to death in anger when the boy accidentally reveals his weakness.

Thoughts?

Edited by 43110 on Aug 1st 2020 at 2:09:07 PM

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
therealjackieboy Master Con Artist from Austin, TX Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ravok The Mountebank of Menace
The Mountebank of Menace
Aug 1st 2020 at 11:08:45 AM

Most excellent rewrite for Wrath, er, Pride!

Edited by Ravok on Aug 1st 2020 at 11:08:38 AM

I'm so...tingly. Like after a nice, relaxing round of shock therapy!
43110 You should start singing for yourself now. from Mars Relationship Status: Abstaining
You should start singing for yourself now.
Aug 1st 2020 at 11:10:07 AM

I'll submit it and then let's just pretend like the 2003's trainwreck version never did that to Bradley's character...

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.)
Aug 1st 2020 at 11:13:31 AM

I'd go with this:

"This version of Furher King Bradley, the military dictator of Amestris, is the Homunculus Pride and Dante's right-hand alongside Envy. Masterminding the genocide in Ishbal and repeating the atrocity in Reole, Bradley even unleashes the psychopathic Solf J. Kimblee to hasten the second blood conflict. ..."

Please add that to the Drafts (you too Ravok).

Anyone else still getting those Captchas whenever they try to edit? just bugs mejust bugs mejust bugs me

Yes to the Mamushis. Hell, even if the candidates were the ONLY villains, I'd say they'd all qualify. Big Bad, The Quisling, Human Trafficking.

CM Drafts; Pending CM Writeups
papyru30 The Powerfu Popula Prestigiou Papyru from Colorado Relationship Status: I want you to want me
The Powerfu Popula Prestigiou Papyru
Aug 1st 2020 at 11:20:09 AM

[tup] to the Kazutaka Hyōdō and Führer King Bradle/Homunculus Pride rewrites.

43110 You should start singing for yourself now. from Mars Relationship Status: Abstaining
You should start singing for yourself now.
Aug 1st 2020 at 11:21:08 AM

Don’t see the point ACW, being the Fuhrer already states his position and naming Kimblee is a pointless name drop.

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