Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

to Moustache and Andrews

I'm not sure the image works, since the actual CM is so cut off

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?

Any more votes on this quote?

RIP KissAnime.

username, I'll give you the first thing, but we've had PLENTY with dumb names.

Sure to the quote.

Anyway, Harley Quinn was broadcast—completely uncensored—on Syfy. Joker's writeup is both too long and leaves out some of his key crimes:

• Harley Quinn (2019): The Joker is Harley's abusive ex-boyfriend. After manipulating her into falling in love with him, the Joker has her act as his partner in crime while putting her life at risk on numerous occasions, such as tricking her into being a suicide bomber for Batman, and letting Harley fall into what he believed to be a vat of acid. When Harley breaks up with the Joker when she realizes he never loved her, he orders his men to kill her rather than let her leave on her own terms. Later, to get back at Harley for causing a request of Joker's to be denied when she joins the Legion of Doom, Joker manipulates Harley into falling for him again by acting like he's became a better person solely to make it hurt Harley more when he pushes her to her near death. He then teams up with The Scarecrow to destroy the headquarters of the Legion of Doom and kidnap Poison Ivy, draining her of her pheromones to create monstrous trees to slaughter Gotham's inhabitants, and when Ivy manages to destroy them, seemingly kills Ivy right in front of Harley, laughing at her pain. During the climactic confrontation between him and Harley, Joker attempts to completely erase Harley's identity by dropping her in a vat of acid that will remove her memories of being Harley Quinn knowing that Harley would prefer death over that fate. Even when defeated, in one last act of spite, Joker sets off explosives all across Gotham City, completely leveling it to the ground. Despite his moments of silliness, Joker often darkens the mood in an overall comedic show.

My proposed rewrite:

• Harley Quinn (2019): The Joker is Harley's abusive ex-boyfriend. After manipulating her into falling in love with him, the Joker has her act as his partner in crime while putting her life at risk on numerous occasions. When Harley breaks up with the Joker when she realizes he never loved her, he orders his men to kill her rather than let her leave on her own terms. Later, to get back at Harley for petty reasons, Joker manipulates Harley into falling for him again by acting like he's became a better person solely to make it hurt Harley more when he pushes her to her near death. He then teams up with the Scarecrow and the Queen of Fables to destroy the headquarters of the Legion of Doom and kidnap Poison Ivy, draining her of her pheromones to create monstrous trees to slaughter Gotham City's inhabitants, later seemingly killing Ivy right in front of Harley, laughing at her pain. Having taken control of Gotham, Joker kills people for any reason whatsoever; painfully tortures Harley's crew; and kills Scarecrow with acid just because the latter unmasked Batman. During the climactic confrontation between him and Harley, Joker attempts to completely erase Harley's identity by dropping her in a vat of acid that will remove her memories of being Harley Quinn knowing that Harley would prefer death over that fate. Even when defeated, in one last act of spite, Joker sets off explosives all across Gotham, causing an earthquake and completely leveling it to the ground.

Thoughts? It's (not including the title) 250 instead of 273.

Edited by ACW on Jun 5th 2020 at 8:33:32 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Yeah having a stupid or silly name isn't a dq for cm. We have off the topic of my head. Cunnilingus igni, Shagnasty, chicken wing, ringmaster Jesus and that's just a few.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

I think that the quote looks good.

And alas, I think I have too agree with that library. I've had a more thorough look at the other images and I'm not sure mine quite matches them.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Jun 5th 2020 at 1:36:35 PM

Sure to the rewrite.

RIP KissAnime.

Yeah but in something like The Lovebirds you need to be a Knight of Cerebus to be a candidate and the fact that they are giving him dumb names reflects the tone of the film and the gravity they are playing him with.

Don't forget the "Fuckpig" Never change Garth, never change

Edited by ACW on Jun 5th 2020 at 8:40:46 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Abstaining on the quote.

Joker rewrite looks like an improvement.

Switching to a no on Mustache; I wanted someone else to verify that he was played seriously before voting.

We still need a quote (and image?) for Discworld.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

I'll give Lovebirds a watch before I vote.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

to the DIO quote

I can try to grab a discworld quote this aft when I'm by my books

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?

No to Mustache.

Look I’ll be frank here, too? G, it’s getting hard to to trust your proposals. The constant ones from comedy with ill-fitting tones, ignoring redeeming qualities, exaggerating heinousness. Once or twice, okay but this is a running problem.

Mustache.

Switching to no on Mustache.

RIP KissAnime.

Since Beast already said he's going to watch it and offer his thoughts, I abstain on Mustache for now.

Honestly G, as you've expressed wish to improve to me, I would like to hear some steps here. Once I felt like there was a blindspot for comedies while most of your film, anime and video game characters tended to go smoothly but now... Lighty's right, we've had to do a ton of rewatches to point out redeeming qualities that were missed, where heinousness was over played, agency being invented where it was non-existent. I'm concerning that the mistakes are now running the whole gamut of every potential problem a proposal could have and none are a one-off case.

There's also one or two I want to discuss for cut:

Now, from the Star Wars monster pages:

• Darth Bane is the one who both destroys and reinvents the Sith. Born Dessel to a simple miner, Bane became a soldier and eventually joined the Sith Academy at a young age. Soon enough, Bane became a devotee of the Dark Side and came to the conclusion the current Sith were weak and flawed. Bane would soon abandon anything resembling morality or compassion. When poisoned, he saved his life by slaughtering a father's three young sons in front of him, drinking in the man's agony before killing him as well. He received healing only when he threatened to torture a healer's young daughter to death. When he rejoined the Sith with the goal to purge them, Bane led them in a ritual that stripped a world of life and finally tricked the leader of the Sith brotherhood, Lord Kaan, into using a forbidden technique that wiped out the Sith and Jedi armies, leading their souls imprisoned in a horrible prison for the next thousand years.
• Darth Zannah, previously known as Rain, is Bane's first true apprentice who submits herself to the Dark Side as a young girl after she crosses the Despair Event Horizon. Proving herself to have the potential for evil, she murdered the crew of a small ship, including children, to secure passage to rejoin Bane. After ten years with Bane, any kindness or innocence Zannah once had is dead and gone. She has no compunction betraying her lover to his death, never having cared about him to begin with. When she discovers a terrorist in the same conspiracy was her lover's other woman, Zannah reveals her talent as a Mind Rape specialist: she uses her sith sorcery to destroy the woman's mind with horrible visions that make her claw out her own eyes until her mind is destroyed, save for a small pocket of consciousness where she will suffer until death. After a duel with the Jedi, Bane is critically injured. Unwilling to let him die before she has all his teachings, Zannah tricks her cousin and the same healer Bane blackmailed years ago, before she slowly hacks the healer to death with her lightsaber and uses her powers to drive her cousin into insanity so the Jedi will kill him, thinking he's the Sith Lord. While Bane is ice cold, devoid of emotion and feeling, Zannah is violent and openly cruel and sadistic, preferring to cause pain mentally. She is a worthy heir to the millennia long evil of the Sith.

Okay, so...I'm actually wondering if they should be kept after discussion on heinousness in the Magnificent Bastard thread. To recap:

Bane's deeds are, in many cases, rivaled or surpassed by more powerful Sith. When you compare him to Sith like Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun, etc. his deeds come up short. Part of this is his bone-deep pragmatism. It's not just pragmatic evil, Bane genuinely scolds himself for contemplating needlessly killing people he can still use, even stating pointless slaughter is absolutely meaningless. The ravaging of Ruusan actually has much less of a bodycount than initially thought as well...compare to Sadow, Kun, etc. who outright nuke solar systems, despite Bane being the Sith Messiah. The only issue I can see to keeping is the Thought Bomb where he manipulates the current Dark Lord to using it, which traps the souls of the Sith and Jedi in an And I Must Scream fate for a thousand years, which is a rare, nasty crime. Granted, other Sith are eager to use it, thinking they can survive.

As for Zannah...now, she's Bane's apprentice after book 1...but the thing is, after the first book, Bane doesn't really do much. He builds a vast criminal and contact network over the galaxy, but besides manipulating a few conflicts....Bane barely does anything pure evil. Zannah does kill a crew of innocent people when she's a child and does shed all redeeming qualities, but her deeds consist of mind-crushing one person into catatonia, carving apart a healer and mind-crushing her cousin into insanity. As far as Sith go, this isn't much, especially given she's as powerful as Bane himself by the end.

Bane has to go... he expresses distaste towards sadism and needless killing to the point he reprimands himself for even considering causing an innocent's death. I don't know if it can quite be called a standard but he seems to view sadism and pettiness with the same dislike as he does overly-tender ones. Additionally the only thing that really makes him stick out is the "Thought Bomb" and its uniqueness is taken from him in not being the only Sith that wants to use it, making it seem much more like a diabolical tool used by his society rather than anything Bane-inherent. Really, it feels like trying to list someone like Scirocco where you can debate the redeeming qualities but they are such pure practitioners of Pragmatic Villainy that they come up short to their own Dragons who will take the time to indulge in mayhem and sadistic pleasure. MB fits him like a glove, this does not.

I think Bane still sounds like mostly Pragmatic Villainy, and that other thing seems bad...I think I say keep him.

Zannah, though? Yeah, for someone supposedly as powerful as Bane, she doesn't seem to do much. I'm fine cutting her.

Incidentally, I wanna hear more about Freedon Nadd, or do we never actually see what he did?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Cut Bane and Zannah.

Nadd is a no-go. Despite being a powerful Sith Lord, most everything he does is offscreen. He sets up a dictatorship on a backwater planet with only a little indication of how bad it is. He's never been featured when he's alive, only as a ghost.

I gotta say, I'm fine with a Pragmatic Villainy practioner counting even if their minions are sadistic. From Skull's page:

• Pragmatic Villainy:...He notably kicked Viper out for wasting his money and resources on acts of terrorism with no strategic benefit, violence for its own sake.

And I don't think anyone would say Skull doesn't count.

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How does he keep ACW? His only big crime isn't unique to him and he literally chastises himself for considering killing an innocent when he concludes there was no point. He's at level of resources of Palpatine in the prequel trilogy and the Thought Bomb being something multiple Sith thought of as a tool to be used means you can't say "There, unique crime"... He's at a tier where he's really gotta be scrutinized and we can't slap down a keep just because he's been on the list for a long time.

Zannah... not sure, with it all listed out, she's sounding more and more like she's got the personality and personal cruelties to count but doesn't go the extra mile in a world where flourishes are seriously needed. I wouldn't mind seeing her go.

Skull indulges in petty cruelty and sadism all the time. Like, all the time.