During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
No need to snap at me, I was just asking why you disagreed.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Sorry, I didn't even realize how rude the post was.
Edited by DelphineTheDelphox on Nov 1st 2019 at 10:12:14 AM
RIP KissAnime.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Chara and Queen Ingrid... Oh man, if Tarzan decided to do a sequel, it would be interesting making Queen La as the main villain and I took dibs on that ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Anyways, @ACW The other two live action Disney C Ms would be Jafar and Scar right?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Chara
- 30 Days in Spring: Ryan Rhodes is a sociopathic teenager who has been committing atrocities since childhood, including murdering a disabled boy in fifth grade. After he and many other students are stuck in the woods during a class trip, Ryan joins up with three other boys to commit more atrocities for fun. After beating a group of fourteen-year-olds to death, the boys gang-rape a girl to deayh and murder her boyfriend when he comes looking for revenge. The boys soon find gold, drowning two guys who found it and torturing others to death when they do the same before burning a shack full of sixth graders alive. Eventually the other boys get tired of the violence, but Ryan makes them keep going under pain of death. After forcing two girls to strangle each other, the gang are attacked by the rest of the students who want revenge. Ryan abandons his goons to their fate as he tries to escape.
to music Chara. Say how come Chara from the main video game doesn’t qualify?
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Ambiguous situation
I thought sharks were my friends.
Okay, I'm sorry if my initial post seemed snappy. I was just trying to be firm in my decision, but I guess I took it too far. The reason I disagreed is because, personally, I really don't like these fan-works that provide Adaptational Villainy to a non-keeper and suddenly make them keep. This is my own, personal stance, and not an attempt to persuade anyone else.
I'm maintaining my nay, but I won't object if they keep.
RIP KissAnime.
Lizzid people!
I mean, yeah I could see where your issues are with that, but it's not like the original character is ruined. Keep in mind that it's just an unofficial fan reimagining. With the OG!Chara, there's too much ambiguity there.
Not that I feel your downvote makes no sense because these takes on characters like Chara are permissible as long as it's not obvious character bashing. But like it's already been stated, it's fiction.
Edited by AustinDR on Nov 1st 2019 at 10:52:56 AM
The wifi here sucks
Was the Big Bad of the film version of Ready Player One ever proposed?
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Lizzid people!
He was, but was downvoted for being insufficiently heinous.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Yeah, I remember this one poster that was severely offended with the Only Monika version of Monika, and I just felt that it was a different interpretation and therefore valid... in a sense. At least, it was an interesting interpretation.
Yet another Chara.
Edited by MasterN on Nov 1st 2019 at 11:10:24 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
The wifi here sucks
I actually found the original discussion, seems like people were taking his final moments in the film (not shooting Wade after seeing that he has the Easter egg) as a mitigating factor. It's been a while since I saw the film but I never interpreted it as mitigating.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Ingrith, Erik and Chara
The canon Black Cat demon is certainly heinous enough. He devoured the souls of countless people including children, and he thought what Ellen did to Viola was hilarious. Also, he was her partner and made everything possible for her. Heinousness isn't the issue, it's his possible Villainous Friendship with Ellen. He's so cordial with her, it's hard not to call him Affably Evil, if only toward her, while being Faux Affably Evil toward everyone else. You could argue that he was just using her, especially given his Hannibal Lecture, but that scene where he wishes Ellen luck while calling her his "faithful witch" hints at some fondness toward her. I'm conflicted. The Hannibal Lecture makes me want to say , but the good luck wishing makes me want to say ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yeah, that's where the scene that give me a bit severe pause after re-looking at him again.
I wouldn't consider the character giving up to be a mitigating factor of their heinousness, that just sounds like Pragmatic Villainy. He understands that he's gotten the Easter Egg and killing him wouldn't really accomplish anything.
The wifi here sucks
People were interpreting his reaction as something of a Heel Realization or at least something that is somewhat sympathetic, and not as having anything to do with heinousness.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Lizzid people!
I had forgotten the initial reason. I thought heinousness, but I guess that wasn't it.
The wifi here sucks
One more question, we've proposed having this picture of Frank on the Fallout page and I'm wondering why it isn't on there since it feels like a fine image
Gentle Laborer
Chara.
It has been a whole year since he was approved, but I'm interested in re-opening the discussion for Ash Gray. I just recently discovered that Ambar had made some valid points on him in the past. For those who are not familiar with Ash, the guy is an Expy of Yazan Gable who joined the military just to kill people, he's a Serial Killer who adds a doll to his collection for each victim that he kills. The doll collection is certainly unique, but as Ambar pointed out, Ash is kinda the least formidable of all Yazan expies, he's a psychopath, that's for sure, and the doll collection is there to prove it, he also tries to kill civilians just to catch his target's attention, and everyone, including his masters in the sequel, the Earth Alliance, see him as a monster, but frankly? I came to the conclusion that, despite how fucked up his doll collection is and what everyone says about the guy, most of his on-screen actions are just about trying to kill the heroes. Ash is something new, in a sense, but at the same time he's also generic in comparison to his fellow expies, and I don't think it would be fair to put him in the same league as Ali Al-Saachez or Desil Galette. As much as I would want for him to stay, he's a Cut.
Family, I'll be offline for a day or two, gonna take the country's SAT tomorrow and I really need to focus on this. Wish me luck, I'll need it.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 2nd 2019 at 5:28:29 PM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Mad Cr0w Good luck and take care on the test mate!
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Bullman: You are correct. It's not at the King page, and I don't think the film's even out yet.
Dang, I like those quotes, especially the first Bastion one (Apocalypse's is good, but too similar to the quote at X-Men to be the page quote). Use Bastion's for the Marvel VG page or keep Mysterio's?
Good luck Crow!
I wanna here more about Ash before I say cut.
Sure to Chara.
Edited by ACW on Nov 2nd 2019 at 4:42:09 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Incidentally, the canon Black Cat currently has 4 and 0 . That's one too few for a candidate, even if they have no . 43110 said they'd read the manga and make up their own mind, so if most of us are abstaining, I guess we can wait. I honestly consider this one of the hardest ones to decide because it's so hard to determine if he cared for Ellen or not. We at least know she didn't really care much for him, because in the prequel, there's a part where she tells him "I hate you" after she learns he kept information from her (specifically that she could die if she truly fell into despair and not even his or her magic could revive her in that scenario).
Edited by papyru30 on Nov 1st 2019 at 11:10:35 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon