During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the Reaper.
the Reaper.
Goku Black
reaper and berkshire
Guys please remember to vote on ravoks candidate too
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The wifi here sucks
for Berkshire. The dude sounds like a classic 80s slimeball sci-fi villain. Although I am not sure if this takes in modern day or an After the End setting.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Reaper
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Now then, here's a tricky candidate for you guys:
What's the Work
Smite is a MOBA game created by Hi-Rez Studios. The story? Well, its a bit short but its mostly based on several mythologies across the world setting in the same world like Chinese, Egyptian, Greek, Nordic, Rome, Celtic and so on. Though despite this, there are several overhauls regarding the story and the role of the mythological figures as well. Now then, doing my resarch, I think Smite has several candidates to discuss from...One of them is from Chinese Mythology and you know who I'm talking about:
That's right...It's the main villain of Fengshen Yanyi who made her own appearance in TV Tropes. Say hello to Da Ji everyone!
Who is She/What Has She Done
Now, for those who don't know about who Da Ji is? Basically she's the main antagonist of the story called Fengshen Yanyi, a wicked fox spirit bewitched the King of China back then called King Zhou. Now, the reason why she ended up getting involved in King Zhou's life is that King Zhou has a perverted lust towards a beautiful goddess named Nu Wa which resulted on Nu Wa send the evil vixen to ruin King Zhou's life.
Except...Nu Wa didn't know that Da Ji was a rather malicious fox demon and has a penchant to cause several misery and destruction because why not? After becoming the wife of King Zhou, Da Ji then causes several havoc and misery across China and delighting in innocent's screams of pain. (As there are some story about her subjugating her own people to brutal tortures like using her favorite torture machine: Paolao while burning down their village and making her men sang at the rhythm of the screams of her own victims)
This resulted on people began to instigate a rebellion and overthrow King Zhou in which the latter ended up killing himself because he can't take it anymore. Da Ji however? Escapes unharmed and participates in the war between gods so that she could satiate her lust of pain.
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
None that given...Now, here's the thing about the original Da Ji from Fengshen Yanyi: In the original tale, she doesn't count as she was appalled when her relatives got skinned. That and several interpretations has her care for kids (Courtesy of Xie 323). Here? She has no redeeming quality and it was stripped in this game and yes, she does have enough of a personality and that's being a sadistic girl she is. Now then, she would be an easy keep right. Exceeeeeept....
Heinous Standard
Here's where the problem lies on me if I want to qualify Da Ji despite I want her up so bad: The heinous standard. In her own pantheon? She's definitely heinous on her own but the issue? All of the mythologies are set in the same world so the heinous standard can be problematic as there are several Greek Gods, Egyptian Gods, Nordic Gods, Rome Gods, Mayan Gods, Hindu Gods or Celtic Gods who are awful themselves. (Ah Puch, Ra, Apophis, Bakasura, Scylla, Loki and Morrigan comes to mind when it comes to contribute to the gigantic heinous standard of the game).
Now how does Da Ji compared to other awful gods in the setting: I might say she compares decently given that she's a subordinate of Nu Wa with no resource in mind compared to other gods but she is able to perform a huge collateral damage across China and you could argue that her penchant on making people suffer and being a serial torturer is the thing that made her stand out a little bit.
And yeah, you could argue that the story is self-contained given what happened in the mythology happens in their own mythology and no other gods from other mythology are getting involved in their respective mythologies (Like Ramayana has an involvement in Nordic mythology). But even then, I'm unsure on this one.
Final Verdict
Unsure. I'll admit that the reason why I want to propose Da Ji is because of her possible status as the progenitor of God Save Us from the Queen! and Femme Fatale trope and yes, she's the main inspiration of my villain from the story I made. As a result, I kind of want to have her own incarnation to be proposed by myself and approved on TV Tropes. But given the mythologies of the game are set in the same setting even if Da Ji is heinous on her own, I'm still torn on this one. I'll let you guys decide.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Aug 15th 2019 at 1:19:47 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
The Lord Of Walruses
to Berkshire and Reaper. Abstain on 40k villains until a more formal EP.
to everyone listed but I’ll retract my vote on Drakkon until the two weeks have passed
Also, I like to write up the other duo from Mute Witness since Light has done Reaper, likely tomorrow once I rewatch the movie. This is what soda after midnight does to a person.
Reaper, Berkshire and Da Ji
The wifi here sucks
Goku Black
....Isn't smite an online battle arena game.
How much of this is genuinely on-screen
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Checking their lores at the official Youtube Channel. I'd say its enough as there are a lot of burning buildings and dying people in Da Ji's backstory
Also, sure to the Reaper.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Aug 15th 2019 at 1:49:43 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Goku Black
Alright sure there then.
Are you doing Hades and Loki as well as they seem the nastiest from the character pages
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@miraculous Maybe, but I'll see what I can do. Of all the characters from Smite, I most definitely want to propose Da Ji from there because I have a special angle for her. Like Lighty with Apophis :3
And if she got approved at the end of the day? I'm glad that I found my own 100 candidate
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Aug 15th 2019 at 1:59:33 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Reaper and Da Ji
Berkshire, Reaper and Da Ji. Withdrawing vote on Drakkon.
Gentle Laborer
Reaper and Da Ji.
What is the work? The Prophecy is a Religious Horror film about the Second War in Heaven, orchestrated by the Big Bad, Archangel Gabriel, out of jealousy towards "talking monkeys" and how God loves them more than angels. In order to increase his chances of winning the war, Gabriel needs a certain "dark soul" that is said to be the key to end the angelic war, the worst of all humans, but this soul resides inside the body of an innocent little girl, Mary, and now her schoolteacher, Katherine, and a police detective, Thomas Dagget, must protect her from Gabriel.
Who is he? Colonel Arnold Hawthorne, described by Gabriel as the "cleverest, meanest, sickest talking monkey" on Earth who, according to Lucifer himself, possesses the "blackest soul", is a deceased veteran with a perpetual Kubrick Stare who manages to be worse than the angel themselves. An important Posthumous Character who apparently "hated children", Hawthorne came from a poor working family and joined the army after graduating from the top of his class at the military academy, eventually becoming an officer and participating in The Korean War, where he committed some of the most grotesque crimes ever recorded in military history, revealing his true colors as a genocidal, racist and cannibalistic madman. As we see through footage recorded by one of his soldiers as some sort of wartime Snuff Film, Hawthorne conducted a series of ritualistic killings against the Chinese during the Battle of Chosin, turning the battlefield into a horrific case of mass human sacrifice. Hawthorne dismembered his victims, impaled them and dumped countless bodies into a mass grave, and if that wasn't enough, Hawthorne also ate their hearts and ordered his soldiers to do the same, cutting off their faces and taking them as macabre souvenirs.
After killing who knows how many people and forcing his troops to commit cannibalism, Hawthorne was eventually court-martialed and died at the age 85; his spirit was so evil that Gabriel felt like he needed him, since according to the titular prophecy, his soul will lead him to triumph, but before he could get him, another angel named Simon hid his soul inside Mary. Slowly possessing the girl, which also harmed her body, Mary began drawing Hawthorne's war crimes and asked Thomas if he ever "Cut off a Chinaman's head? They don't bleed, not like we do, or maybe it was just the cold" and proudly admits to have been "colder than anyone" at Chosin. With the help of a Native American clan, they successfully exorcise Mary before Hawthorne could be recruited by Gabriel and his disgusting soul, manifesting itself as a demonic abomination, has to be destroyed by God himself. The guy was so bad that even God had to step in and personally put an end to him with his divine light.
Freudian Excuse? We never get one, he's proud of his war crimes even after death.
Heinous? In a franchise where the main enemies are human-hating angels, Hawthorne is the worst human, which is even acknowledged In-Universe by the angels, including the Devil himself. There is a short scene where we see angels impaled in Heaven, suffering as result of the war, and his actions are an exact mirror of that, with him torturing and massacring as if they were objects to him.
Conclusion? I rarely pay attention to characters who are already dead, but he gets my . Also, what's up with the rank of Colonel? Do you automatically become evil when you reach this rank? He's like, the sixth Colonel that i'm proposing.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Aug 15th 2019 at 6:49:17 AM
The wifi here sucks
for Hawthorne. You know, for the longest time I would think that Col. Hawthorne would be in the section given how vile he is. But shockingly, he wasn't.
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Hawthorne.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Ultimate Moral Compass
Hawthorne. Holy shit I COMPLETELY forgot about this guy. I hadn’t seen the first Prophecy in years, and I mainly remember Christopher Walken and Viggo Mortensen.
Funnily enough, I had to watch the movie for a high school final of mine.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 15th 2019 at 12:50:29 PM
"No running in the halls!"
Goku Black
Hawthorne
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Reaper
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon