During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If Munroe DOES stay, everyone okay with the tweak on the previous page?
Also, I called the 4th film and the all-female film (if they ever get made).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The one in question is about forty minutes. I haven't seen it myself, just a review and when I saw the villain I was like "...shiiiit".
I am not gonna EP him, I just wanted to clarify for context sake.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Short-Term Projects herald
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Patrick. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
The other proposals since.
Isn't Lotso another no-kill CM, at least as far as visibility is concerned (i.e. barring implications and Fridge Horror, as well as something else I missed)?
Edited by Brainulator9 on Mar 26th 2019 at 1:01:50 PM
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lotso has no ACTUAL kills, but he ATTEMPTS to kill the heroes (or at best tries to let them die); same thing with Steele, now that I think about it.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
Bryce didn't kill anyone.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm not sure Ultron or Doc Ock had any successful kills either, but they damn sure tried.
Edited by ACW on Mar 26th 2019 at 1:11:16 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Short-Term Projects herald
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, I forgot about intended kills. I guess my mind was laser-focused on successful kills.
The Coachman doesn't have a bodycount either.
Neither did Unalaq IIRC.
Edited by Beast on Mar 26th 2019 at 12:15:10 PM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Yeah Bryce doesn't even attempt to kill anyone. The most violent thing he does is beat Clay to a pulp.
I return. I think it might be a lost cause to try to catch up on the month’s worth of discussion I missed (as well as everything I missed from last year).
Haven’t seen the show, but Bryce drove a girl to take her own life. That counts in my book.
Lotso has at least one of that train toy being thrown out was alive.
I usually don’t have this problem because all my candidates (approved or unapproved) usually have at least two deaths on their hands (I count Alan Wells driving Levi to take his own life as a kill). My one notable exception is probably Scar Snout who never was seen killing anyone, but had an intended body count of 7. We don’t need to talk about that though.
Saw Aquaman finally on Saturday with my dad and thought it was really good. I actually love the fact that it doesn’t have a CM because Orm and Black Manta are ultimately both very human.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 26th 2019 at 10:24:50 AM
Andy Evans as a no-kill?
Also, I have a list of CMs regarding how many people they kill, a list of CMs who don't kill anyone, actors that portray CMs, and killcount videos detailing how many kills some CMs net (no relation to Dead Meat). Follow the signature.
Edited by k410ren on Mar 26th 2019 at 1:23:11 PM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Lord of Hell
Terrence T. D'arby has no kills either. All of his victims are in a And I Must Scream situation.
Jean-Michel Roget also has no kills, though he has put people in scenarios where they could die and he'd be apathetic towards it.
Also, I'm gonna give a tentative yea to Deucalion. If anything changes on my rewatch, I'll bring it up. Well done, Kylo
Goku Black
Abby and Keith don't have any that I'm aware of. Though the whole selling 11 year olds as sex slaves is still extremely awful.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Tentative yea to Deucalion as well
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
to Emilio Largo and a tentative to King Deucalion.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Emilio Largo and a to King Deucalion.
to Pat. One second redeemers
Goku Black
Decaluin
I guess
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Weak to Deucalion.
Okay. It seems i misunderstood GDV trope in regards to animated Dormammu. For clarity, how much personality is needed for villain to rise above GDV status?
Also, does the last sentiences in this two entries from "Marvel Disk Wars: The Avengers" are really needed?
Largo and Deucalion
Batman and Patrick
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
VVV: I'd not be opposed to cutting those sentences.
As for your question: There's no real rule of thumb. They can be a Flat Character, but they have to have SOME personality.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Also, nobody minds if i put "Marvel Future Avengers" on my to do list?
Short-Term Projects herald
I took the "Defined Motives" qualification to mean "For the Evulz is good enough, as long as they're a character and not just a threat". Compare the MacGuffin in terms of interchangability.
Edited by Brainulator9 on Mar 26th 2019 at 2:46:35 PM
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
PSAs normally are about a few minutes max. Not much in way for a story.
Edited by AustinDR on Mar 26th 2019 at 9:52:40 AM