During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gyokko
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So I guess the whole tree will look like this?
- Starfox:
- In a franchise that has undergone two Continuity Reboots, Andross has shown his worst in two of these three timelines:
- The original incarnation of Andross is the Big Bad of Star Fox and Star Fox 2. Banished to Venom for an unknown crime, he converted the lush, green planet into a barren weapons factory while enslaving the natives to fight for him against their will. He then launched an assault on the Lylat System, severely damaging the various planets and regions while doing so. While Fox ends the war, Andross had put an AI copy of himself in charge of the operation, leaving him free to build the Astropolis base and attack again, this time with the goal of completely destroying Corneria.
- The second Andross, who appears in Star Fox 64 and Star Fox Adventures (with a posthumous impact in Star Fox Command), was responsible for experiments that destroyed a good chunk...
- Aparoid Queen.
- In a franchise that has undergone two Continuity Reboots, Andross has shown his worst in two of these three timelines:
to Gyokko
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
to Alain
Edited by G-Editor on Aug 19th 2018 at 1:30:28 AM
Gentle Laborer
Previous candidates. New EP, this time from Chloe no Requiem, a favorite of mine.
What is the work? Michel D'Alembert is a Brilliant, but Lazy Child Prodigy who runs away from home and finds a mysterious mansion in the middle of nowhere. This mansion belongs to the Ardennes, a well-known, but troubled family with a disgusting secret. With pre-teen pianist Cloé Ardennes by his side, Michel must purify the mansion of its curses and face his own demons along the way.
Who is Alain? Considered by many to be a "heretic of the music world", Alain is the man behind everything. A talented composer with the aura of an Obviously Evil Mad Artist, those who have listened to his music for too long have gone insane. Abusive towards his wife and daughter since she was 9, Alain was a Serial Rapist who used his daughter's pain as a way to satisfy himself, beating her until she bled, and calling her to his room multiple times a day so he could rape her, even becoming bored when Cloé tried to resist the urge to let out her voice, not losing the opportunity to take pictures of her with a bitter expression on her face, keeping these in an album that is implied to contain child pornography; this abuse resulted in his wife becoming mentally ill, and neglect her own daughter, leaving her to suffer at the hands of Alain.
Shortly before the events of the game, Alain wanted to rape Cloé just before her performance before she was saved by Michel. One day, Alain composed a song dedicated to his daughter, naming it Cloé's Requiem. For those who don't know, Requiem is a composition made for the dead. Realizing that her father wanted to murder her for shits and giggles, Cloé killed him in self-defence. Alain's soul became attached to his favorite piano and cursed Cloé, imprisoning her in their home and forcing her to develop a Split Personality, turning his own daughter into a monster. Never wasting the chance to laugh, Alain observed Michel and expressed a desire to turn him into his newest "prey", chasing and trying to murder the boy shortly before his piano was finally destroyed, removing his spirit from the mansion.
Freudian Excuses? No real excuses are given for him, he might have tortured Cloé for the sake of inspiration, but that just makes him even worse.
Heinous? Easily one of the worst antagonists to ever be introduced in a RPG Maker horror game.
Conclusion? An easy
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Aug 19th 2018 at 8:46:19 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Jesus that's dark. Yes to the uber-Abusive Father.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to Alain.
@The Mad Cr0w How is the game btw? There are a lot of rpg maker horror games but a game that is about musicians doesn't sound common.
Edited by Knack on Aug 19th 2018 at 4:29:12 AM
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Alain. Yowza...
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Alain (Lol, I accidentally copy paste Michel' name)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It was pretty nice IMO, I just finished playing it this week. Is not perfect but I really enjoyed it. I was going to propose Alain' just tomorrow...Uh.
Also. How many Horror RPG Maker CM' we have?
Gyokko
Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 19th 2018 at 6:34:05 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Alain.
Gentle Laborer
As a classical music aficionado myself, i loved the soundtrack. Plot was pretty simple, but the multi-layered characters were the focus.
The only other "antagonist" is the traumatized/bad Cloé, but the only thing she does is chase you once. Don't forget about his "cursed" songs, but this is a case of Fridge Horror because we don't know if he is composing these songs to make people go insane on purpose.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Aug 19th 2018 at 8:55:12 AM
Lord of Hell
Hmm. Alain seems like a monstrous piece of shit and all, but with only two (and a third indirectly) people actually suffering from it makes me wary. How heinous are the other villains in the game (or is Alain the only one?)
Alright. I'll give a to Alain then
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Aug 19th 2018 at 7:53:50 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
This may be the rare case where, if he's not outheinoused, a low quantity is more than made up for by quality of crimes.
Mmhmm. I'm willing to excuse low victim count if the actual suffering would be more proportionate to multiple people suffering under the abuses (John Wakefield and his continuous, daily rape/torture of a single girl for three months) and it sounds like Alain hits that criteria. Yes to him.
Gyokko Alain.
Reading an ongoing fanfic that features a canon CM. He dies early in the story so I'm wondering if it'd be okay to bring him up now or after the story is done.
Edited by Beast on Aug 19th 2018 at 7:13:10 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Read to the end so you have an accurate measure of the standard and/or potential posthumous redeeming qualities (hey, they've happened before IIRC).
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Posthumous ones? Then again, wouldn't surprise me.
Edited by ACW on Aug 19th 2018 at 8:18:24 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Here's this week's batch, in case anyone wants to look it over before it gets submitted tomorrow. 43 this time (of course, 5 of those are FMA rewrites, while 6 are Octopath).
Yes to Alain
Lizzid people!
Shin Megami Tensei IV
I say that it would be better bring him now.
Watch me destroying my country
And risk an inaccurate view of the standard if someone blows him out later?
Gentle Laborer
- Chloe no Requiem: Alain Ardennes is Cloé's abusive father and the man who cursed her. A talented musician who drove people to insanity with his unique compositions, Alain was a Serial Rapist who took pleasure in hurting his wife and molesting his daughter, taking pictures of the latter in distress and keeping them in an album. After Alain was killed by Cloé in self-defence when he showed signs of wanting to murder her, his spirit cursed Cloé and the mansion, turning his own daughter into a monster.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Aug 19th 2018 at 11:56:11 AM
