Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Piet Smit from District 9 has Overprotective Dad on the character page. Is that a redeeming trait ?

edited 29th Mar '15 1:05:23 AM by ST89

I'm not sure why that trope is there. The extent of his interaction with his daughter is lying to her about her husband Wikus's fate.

Piet Smit from District 9 lacks redeeming qualities but he in no way qualifies. He strongly fails the heinous standard compared to the other two villains that are listed. The only victim of his deeds is the protagonist. Cut him. As for the other two, Kobus is an easy keep while Obesandjo is a little ambigous but I think that he could stay too. But Piet has to go.

Wasn't he approved already?
P.S. Lighty, what should I do about the current writeup for Honest? Just keep for now?

edited 29th Mar '15 11:49:22 AM by ACW

I don't think he has. It seems like he was one of those examples who was a little touched on without going in-depth.

Huh, looks like you're right. Should we have an effort post for all 3 so we can vote?

It's been a while since I've seen District 9, but isn't the guy who eats alien flesh a really minor villain who barely shows up?

Yeah, this is my only issue with Obesandjo. If he had more sceentime he would absolutely count. I still think he does but we might need to cut him too.

Yes, an effort post would be a great idea! Though, I think the descriptions could already speak for themselves.

Got into the web series Everyman HYBRID, and wondering if we discussed HABIT yet (not being a ham, that's how his name is spelt). For those unfamiliar, he is a malevolent enity that takes control of people, and kills others, using them as vessals. He had a CM Entry that got deleted.

• Complete Monster: Unlike Slender Man and The Rake, HABIT is unambiguously, humanly, gleefully evil. If he isn't just bullshitting in his posts to Can You See The Words, he invaded a family's home and brutally tortured the parents while The Slender Man took their son. Then possessed Evan's friend Nick, forced him to kill his dog, and then used him to attack Evan... who killed him.

He has more on his plate though, over the centuries he possesses multiple people at once. Jack the Ripper ? Albert Fish ? Ed Gein ? Josef Mengele ? All just HABIT having some fun in someone else's body.

Recently, it's revealed he orchestrated the births of both Evan and his friend Nick so they'd be suitable hosts. He had Nick attack Evan as a trial, and Evan killed Nick. He later possessed Evan, forced him to kill his girlfriend and eat their baby.

Long story short, he's a disembodied Joker.

He has standards. It's mentioned he's against animal cruelty and saved someone's life not out of pragmatism but for similar reasons than Alex. unless these can be disproved.

It seems like Majora's Mask in that it's got no real personality outside of being evil and it seems like it's made of evil. Unless someone can show me that it has an actual personality, I'm thinking cut.

Any more votes on Von Reitcher or Jose?

edited 29th Mar '15 2:04:03 PM by Klavice

From what I read, HABIT did have an understanding of good, but I'd cut him if he does have a few qualities that keeps him from being a COMPLETE monster.

What works again? When asking, it's probably a good idea to remind us of what they're from.

Upcoming proposals: Killzone's examples, Gostun, Lord Embryo from Cros Ange...got a few movie examples that may fit, like Robert Doob from Eye For an Eye

Writeup wise, I might as well do that Filipino soap opera example writeup, and we'll discuss Obesandajo and Piet Smith.

@ACW They're from Cybersix, an Argentinian comic which got turned into a Canadian cartoon. They are very niche, but still have somewhat of a cult following. I doubt many people have seen it or read the comic unless you live in Argentina or Canada. I think Von Reitcher was on the page before but was cut due to zero context. I think his son Jose could also count as he is The Starscream to his father having killed him to assume control. And he has no Freudian Excuse.

Does anyone have any opinions on Onodera?

Animated Von Reitcher is different from comic book Von Reitcher. I find that Von Reitcher in the cartoon series was not very proactive, spending most of his time sitting around in his lab, while Jose went out and did generic villain things. I think animated Von Reitcher crossed the Moral Event Horizon line in his last appearance, when he tried to blow up a city, but he may not count due to not being proactive enough. If someone wants to do an effort post on Animated Von Reitcher, we can debate him better.

The comic book Von Reitcher may count, but the comics are in Spanish, so I can't comment on him, I don't speak Spanish.

Anyway I am going to do a write up on Samuel Smith:

• The Punisher: While not as dark as MAX imprint, the 616 Punisher series has its own monsters. Reverend Samuel Smith was a Jim Jones style figure who started his own cult called the "Church of the Saved". Preaching that America is a racist and fascist nation, Smith managed to recruit several disfranchised people to join his church. However Smith runs his church as a fiefdom, killing members who defy him or try to leave the church and making the women of his church join his harem, while forcing everyone else in the church to be celibate. Punsiher tries to kill Smith after he reveals he intends to feed poisoned food to his church membership, killing all 1000 his loyal followers. After his initial defeat, Smith decides evil is more powerful then good and becomes a Satan Worshiper. Smith decides to use a drug that causes sterility to destroy the human race. After Punsiher destroys a shipment of his sterility drug, Smith take out his frustration by murdering a suburban family, including the children. Near the end of the story, Smith was trying to dump his sterility drug into the Gulf of Venezuela, before Punsiher killed him for good.

edited 29th Mar '15 6:07:59 PM by Overlord

Old Nick from Room was discussed some time ago and was voted to count. Is his current entry good enough?

• Complete Monster: Old Nick's big accomplishments consist of the abduction of a young woman, the imprisonment of that young woman in a single room for seven years without once getting to go outside or having any social contact with the outside world, and the more or less nightly rape of that woman, resulting in the fathering of the five year old narrator Jack... who he also keeps as a prisoner in the room. Also, the first time that woman got pregnant, he just allowed that woman to go into labour right in front of him, with zero pain-killers or research about the birthing process, resulting in that baby dying.

edited 29th Mar '15 5:38:36 PM by TVRulezAgain

Sounds like the Cybersix example can count.

Now, for Gostun, I'll make a quick post: Northmen is a film about a group of Vikings who are shipwrecked off the coast of Scotland. A brief mixup leads to them fighting the Scottish soldiers and capturing a Scottish king's daughter. The group decides to ransom her to her father for money so they can return home.

When the Scottish king hears about this, he dispatches his best troops: a Mercenary company led by the calculating Bovarr and his vicious sadist of a brother Gostun. he king tells the company to recover his daughter...and if they can't, to kill her so she can't be used against him. Gostun, however, decides on his own to murder the princess to protect his employment.

Gostun's Establishing Charater Moment is when a messenger brings the King news of the Vikings and their abduction of his daughter. Gostun storms over, grabs the guy and shoves his head into a fire pit until he's dead. The King asks if that was necessary and Gostun basically goes "Eh."

Gostun is also the one to come up with the idea to just forego trying to recover the princess and just murder her. His reasoning is that the king is old and his daughter and her eventual husband will succeed him. No reason to risk her not employing the group more. Gostun then cheerfully remarks to Bovarr "I'll tell the men tomorrow the king's orders are to murder his daughter."

Gostun captures a survivor of another patrol, brutalizes him and gets him to spill what happened under promise to let him go, before having Bovarr kill him. Gostun spends the rest of the film trying to kill the Princess and the Vikings and when he actually fights his opponents, he attempts to draw it out and make it painful as possible.

The only thing is his relationship to Bovarr. Bovarr is a nasty cusstomer, but more a professional merc and not a needless sadist. He seems genuinely shocked by Gostun brutally killing the guy with the firepit, and while the two cooperate well, it's very business. The one time they're friendly is gostun amused how they're going to murder the princess and keep employment. When Bovarr is killed, Gostun hardly looks very upset and is more focused on doing exactly what he wanted to in the first place with the vikings.

If the king wanted them to kill any Vikings that got in their way, and was okay with them killing his daughter if it would keep the Vikings from using her against them, the Vikings were kidnappers, and Bovarr was himself a sadist, it sounds like the film suffers from Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy, and Gostun is only just barely more heinouess than everyone else in the film.

edited 29th Mar '15 7:27:16 PM by bobg

...okay, perhaps I oughta...clarify a few things. This isn't a dark film at all. It's more a fun adventure film with vikings in it.

1. I quite clearly said Bovarr isn't a sadist. Quite clearly. He looks shocked when Gostun brutally and unnecessarily kills the luckless soldier at the start

2. The King's orders were to recover his daughter if at all possible and kill her if not for the entirely pragmatic reason of "she can't be used as a political tool." Gostun decides to murder her for no other reason than connivance, bloodshed and money. The King's reasoning is that if his rivals see that a group of Vikings can extort gold from a King, he'll be overthrown.

3. Okay, yeah, kidnapping is not on the fucking level of shoving someone's head into an open fire. The vikings are portrayed as decent, flawed people who like good fights, but hardly get off on murdering innocents. They take the princess hostage, but treat her quite well, and only because they need the money to get back home. When they believe the king is opting to kill her instead, they don't murder or abandon her, but actively shift to keeping her safe.

In other words, Bob, you really, really got everything wrong there.

edited 29th Mar '15 7:48:22 PM by Lightysnake

Oh. In that case

Wait, so I get why the King wanted the daughter killed, but how does killing her right away help Gostun? And what's his overall body count?

edited 29th Mar '15 7:57:05 PM by ACW

Because if the men believe they don't have to bother trying to save her, it spares him a lot of trouble. He also doesn't have to deal with the possibility she'll stop employing them when her father dies.

All told, Gostun has a count of 4-5. More attempted.

edited 29th Mar '15 7:58:21 PM by Lightysnake

So...then who would employ them? I think I'll vote either way.
P.S. Don't forget Jonah Wade from Army of Two: The 40th Day, Prime Minister Honest, Joa and Jagi/Jackal from Live-Action Fist Of The North Star.
Writeups we have Nobunaga Oda and Guildenstern (Munenori, Mitsunari, Guildenstern?) and Film!Light.

edited 29th Mar '15 8:08:34 PM by ACW