During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I remember that I was wondering if the Bloodstone Emperor could keep. To be honest, I am not sure if his crimes are described in enough detail for the criteria of this trope but the book does make it clear that they were on a massive scale, so I will give him a tentative yes.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to the Emperor, if only due to the scale and the cannibalism (I think that part's unique).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
That and also World makes it clear it's collecting an oft-repeating and common story, it's like how we deal with real life myths but applied to the In-Universe legends instead.
Guys we are reading what I wrote, correct? Can someone help me understand why the heinous standard makes people so pensive? If you take the Story Within a Story approach he's not against the main verse keepers and even if you choose to believe the legends might be true how can a God-Emperor who commits atrocities to the point the goodhearted deity abandons mankind not measure up? We'd be talking at least seven figures for victims tortured, enslaved, killed and eaten.
Edited by 43110 on Mar 17th 2022 at 5:42:38 AM
Yeah, guys, the Emperor has zero bars, unconventional as he is. He’s a legend detailed enough in an official source in Ice and Fire’s answer to China who operates on a vast scale.
The scale isn’t just a little aside here, it’s the literal reason he’s up here. We have people who butcher cities, this guy massacred more people than probably exist in entire countries. There’s precisely one villain right now who might exceed that for ambition. One.
If Maegor, Tyanna and the Betrayers made it (and they should), a psycho god emperor who butchered millions and ate them with incidents of atrocities that have traumatized the nation since, even in legend?
Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 17th 2022 at 2:43:31 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Out of curiosity, who is this villain that might exceed him?
Edited by WatTambor on Mar 17th 2022 at 12:45:15 PM
I’ll be doing that EP soon
It's a good one, stay tuned!
OK. This sounds interesting.
Yes to the Emperor
I was actually talking about this with Nev...even ignore his legendarily gigantic body count and the story within a story stuff, the BE's cannibalism is shared by Biter (a victim of Rorge), Cannibal (a non-sapient dragon), and Lo Cho (another historical figure whose crimes aren't at a tenth of the scale of the BE). And that's it. Dozens, literally dozens of characters who partake in murder, torture, rape, and somehow the BE is the king of this weirdly specific niche.
Keep him.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 17th 2022 at 3:58:16 AM
Oh yeah I forgot we even checked the wiki last night to verify ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Yeah. Is cannibalism unheard of? No. Does anyone do it on the scale that you could make every Big Mac in the world out of human meat? Also no. HS breached
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Blood Emperor. How many more Keepers does Ice and Fire have in it? I'm honestly scared to get into it or Game of Thrones knowing it gets this dark.
Bloodstone
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Teppeus, Mezalord, and Bloodstone Emperor.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The Bloodstone Emperor.
Yes to the Bloodstone Emperor.
to the Celenike Icecolle Yggdimillienia quote, General Milos Radanovich, Prince Keldor, Mezalord, and the Bloodstone Emperor. A more tentative one to Mr. Tune/Augustus Tuneski.
Cut Prince Keldor.
I also think the Resident Evil page format can stay.
@Snoketrope: I am deeply sorry to hear about your dog.
Bloodstone Emperor.
Woagh
to Mezalord and the Bloodstone Emperor.
Cut Keldor the funny bone man.
Btw, found this on Cthulhu Mythos regarding Nyarlathotep:
- Even Evil Has Loved Ones: According to the ‘’Parchments of Pnom’’, Yhoundeh is the Crawling Chaos’ wife. There are also his ‘’Million Favored Ones’’, who are possibly Nyarly’s spawn. Since Nyarlathotep is one of the only cosmic horrors who doesn't operate under Blue-and-Orange Morality, this is probably a straight example. Then again, considering his sociopathic traits, such as being manipulative, feigning kindness, and lacking empathy, it's unlikely that Nyarlathotep truly loves Yhoundeh.
The entry itself admits that it's taking a wild guess based off of random knowledge, so it's safe to say it probably doesn't hold up.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 17th 2022 at 3:47:29 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, not to mention, merely having a wife and kids doesn't really mean anything.
EDIT: Also, guys? The pending list is getting a little bloated. This is without Westeros or GI Joe:
- The Sadist's Bible, by Nicole Cushing (Atlantis)
- Paper Mario: The Temple of the Sun: Mayor Bulbin (beeruckzII)
- Wheely (2018): Kaiser (Clown-Face)
- The Slave (aka The Son of Spartacus) (1962): Marcus Licinius Crassus (Lighty)
- The Sum of All Fears: Derek Olson (Lighty)
- Thomas Wayne (Ravok)
- Akumaizer 3: Mezalord (Reddish)
- Epic Illustrated's issue #10's "Marada the She-Wolf" (Scraggle)
- Vol. 3 (The Invincible Iron Man) issue #50 ("Tin Man"): Gen. Milos Radanovich (Scraggle)
- Marvel Knights Vol. 2 (STARCRUSHER)
Edited by ACW on Mar 17th 2022 at 6:52:48 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
That’s later additions. Not remotely from Lovecraft
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
Especially since Abusive Parents and Domestic Abuse are a thing, though of course not every abuser is a CM. Sometimes they're just a Hate Sink.
Still we have a lot of bad dad/mom monsters. Ragyo, Ego, Bhaal, Dreykov, the High Priestess of Aku etc.
Edited by MinisterOfSinister on Mar 17th 2022 at 10:55:32 AM
Besides that entry is awkwardly unsure of itself.
Muzan Kibutsuji is seen as a dad/husband with a wife and child while in human disguise. They appear in one scene and the next time he's pretending to be the bedridden kid of a wealthy family he slaughters his hosts as soon as he's done, three guesses as to what happened to the previous "family" he used.
Also to help with said bloated pending:
- Yi Ti mythology: The Bloodstone Emperor is the jealous second son of the semi-divine Opal Emperor according to legend. Murdering his own older sister to take power over the paradisal Great Empire of the Dawn, the Bloodstone Emperor begins worshipping an evil stone and marked his rule with mass murder and enslavement, feasting on the flesh of man and taking to practicing dark magic. So atrocious is the mass sin at the tyrant's hands, the benevolent Goddess and ancestor to the Bloodstone Emperor himself leaves the world in peril, his Empire being eradicated in the age that follows, though followers of his sinister religion still exist in the present day long after his fall.
Edited by 43110 on Mar 17th 2022 at 6:57:52 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
BE
"No running in the halls!"