During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
There's also that moment of Villain Respect when Bloodsport extorts her for the sake of himself and the others and she says (might be a paraphrase): "I told you I'd make a leader of you yet Dubois."
Hoping when Veronica Rawlings is discussed over on MB eventually that Viola Davis gets her chance at a keeper then.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 19th 2021 at 12:21:05 PM
RIP Toriyama
And of course a 'Yes' to Suarez.
Now then, last JoJo for now. Say hello to the man who is considered by many to be the most memorable Arc Villain of Jojolion.
Who is Tamaki Damo? What has he done?
A Gonk looking mofo introduced as the apparently slow-talking boyfriend of Hato Higashikata, Damo is truthfully a Rock Human and the leader of the smuggling subsection of the Locacaca Organization. Thanks to Damo's connections, his organization has a steady supply of Locacaca flowing into Japan, and Damo is the main one who works to sell them to potential buyers...while leaving out the horrors the fruit can leave. Just one man is shown to buy a fruit from Damo's group for a small fortune to restore his wounded shoulder for baseball—it works, at the cost of the man's jaw crumbling to pieces and leaving his face maimed for life.
Willing to torture and murder anyone who snoops into his smuggling operation, Damo tracks down the man Yoshikage Kira and his teenage buddy Josefumi when they steal one of the Locacaca fruits to save Kira's sickly mother. Once cornering them, Damo uses his Stand, Vitamin C, on the duo...Vitamin C? Turns its targets' bodies to soft, malleable goo for as long as it is activated. And as Damo shows, this is a perfect Stand for someone as sadistic as him.
Damo's favorite way to torment his victims in this state is by using a folded 1,000 yen bill to slice into their gooey bodies and mutilate them as they scream in agony. Damo subjects Kira and Josefumi to this, slicing off their limbs and cutting out Kira's liver...at another point, Damo stabs the bill into Josefumi's temple and threatens to pop his eyeball out, mocking Kira over his sickly mother who will never be healed now that Damo has caught the boys.
Sadistically trying to convince the boys to turn on each other by promising to spare whoever rats on the other first, Damo is distracted long enough from his torture for the boys to reconstitute their forms and escape Vitamin C's influence. Ordering them both killed, Damo fails to find them before they devour a special breed of Locacaca and merge together, becoming the protagonist Josuke.
Tracking the boys' pasts to the Higashikata family, Damo seduces and manipulates the naive Hato Higashikata into a relationship and uses her to infiltrate the Higashikata house. Activating Vitamin C and reducing the entire family to gooey forms, Damo brags his intent to exterminate them all—comprised currently of patriarch Norisuke, his teenage children Joshu and Daiya, and Hato herself.
First wanting information, Damo subjects Norisuke to violent Body Horror torture, using his trademark yen bill tactic to mutilate the man repeatedly, threatening to go do the same to his daughters if he doesn't spill the beans. At one point, Damo throws fish into Norisuke's body, letting them swim around in his organs and face, causing the man intense, horrific pain as Damo films the whole incident for kicks. While this torture happens, Joshu is painfully washed down a sink drain by Vitamin C.
Eventually, Damo reveals he has spared Hato from his Vitamin C effects thus far...just so he can first lure her to Norisuke and make him watch as he tortures and kills her. When Norisuke finally complies to Damo's questioning, Damo still goes back on his word, liquefying Hato and wounding her while Norisuke watches. Finally finding Josuke, Damo realizes he is an amnesiac fusion of Kira and Josefumi. Damo doesn't care that he doesn't remember anything, instead deciding to repeat his torture and carve out man's liver and torture him to death before exterminating the rest of the family.
Luckily, Hato works with Josuke to fight Damo, and though Damo lights Norisuke on fire to use his screams to lure his enemies into a trap, Damo is ultimately killed and his victims restored to normal, minus some mental trauma :D
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Nope, as I went over with Tooru, Rock Humans aren't lacking in agency, and Damo is by far the most personally vile of the Rock Humans in sadism and douchebaggery.
Heinousness?
Here's where some hesitancy is present, but I think Damo might just pass. Again, remember that Parts 7 and 8 are their own canon.
Damo's level of horrific Body Horror and torture is very unique in the entire franchise, not even just exclusively the new canon. Turning his victims to helpless goo that keeps them conscious and cognizant of the tortures he puts them through is creatively horrible, and the fact that he does everything from burning them, to slicing them, to carving out organs, to letting fish swim in their organs, this is special. Domo is also one of the biggest parts of the Locacaca Organization, being subservient to Tooru but still overseeing the entire smuggling wing of the operation and the main one getting them into Japan to be used for nasty purposes.
My only real hesitation is that Damo ultimately—onscreen—just targets Kira, Josefumi and the current occupants of the Higashikata family—comprised of 2 adults and 2 teens at the moment—with his heinous torture. Members of the Higashikata family are endangered more than once through the story, with Tooru himself using Wonder of U to stalk and screw with the family with "accidents".
Where he might pull through for me is that, ultimately, all of his victims are (mostly) innocents who did almost nothing notable to him except mess with his business or be associated with people who did, and he takes it out on them with nasty, nasty torture and basically vivisection all while they're conscious. He fully intends to torture and kill Hato despite her loving him, plans the same for the teenagers of the family, and the sorts of Sadistic Choice examples he offers Kira, Josefumu and Norisuke...all of this is very unique levels of sadism and torture for the new canon.
His onscreen targets all being main characters or their loved ones and allies is a bit iffy, but I think the nasty levels he goes to may push him over.
Final Verdict?
I thiiiiiink I'll lean Keep. Unique level of torture for the entire franchise, especially for the new continuity, probably saves him from his targets being who they are.
Edited by Ravok on Aug 19th 2021 at 12:31:34 PM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
The Emperor of Evil!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Damo. How does Kira survive WITHOUT A LIVER?
Also, dude's not TOO gonkish. He's just not a bishonsen like most of the males.
Yea to, uh, fish torture guy. We keep getting weird crimes in this thread; just an hour ago I pulled up a guy who was guilty of raping an alien starfish, and now...
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the soldier, Grieves (been waiting for that one), Suarez (had a feeling that one would come up, too) and Damo.
Goku Black
Damo
to Damo.
I also have a honestly pretty disturbing image on Judge Doom and 2 images of Shan Yu (Honestly think the second one isthe better one of the two).
Transformers Cyberverse is returning with 2 new TV movies announced by Netflix called The Immobilizers and The Perfect Decepticon will be both set to be released in November 21st this year. With Megatron X confirmed to return since he is only unconscious and not dead, with either new crimes coming or the highly unlikely scenario where there are stuff redeeming about him, or if there is a minute possibility for another candidate, I may wanna give a heads up as this is for the grabs, I will be willing to give this opportunity to anybody.
Edited by The-Scarecrow on Aug 19th 2021 at 11:53:04 PM
to the solider and Damo.
Abstain on the Suicide Squad discussion solely cause I haven't seen it yet and don't want to spoil anything.
Edited by MGD107 on Aug 19th 2021 at 12:36:03 PM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Damo
Saurez.
Damo.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Hell to the Thinker, Capaldi did great in the Role. A weaker to Suarez as well, in practice he's...well he's sorta there and even being worse then his boss kinda makes him come across as a slightly worse Bump in the Road, but in terms of technicalities I guess he's fine.
to The Thinker (loved that guy), Suarez, and the Jojo baddies
Edited by G-Editor on Aug 19th 2021 at 3:51:18 PM
Lies and Violence!
Yes to the Thinker, general dude, and JoJo guys.
I'm sure all of you are vaguely familiar with Skulduggery Pleasant by now. Magic secret society, main characters are a skeleton detective and a teenager, muggles = mortals because people are especially prideful/racist here, etc. I know last time I said I was probably done, but then I remembered that this asshole exists.
Anyway, more specific backstory: there's this goddess lady named Abyssinia who wants to start a civil war between mortals and sorcerers. However, since she's kind of dead at the moment, she's forced to communicate and recruit through dreams and stuff. It's here on the astral plane that she met an Eldritch Abomination named Balerosh. The two formed an alliance, dividing the power they receive from sacrifices made to Balerosh.
So now, a character from the short story, Get Thee Behind Me, Bubba Moon!
The Candidate
Balerosh appeared in a dream to a sorcerer named Bubba Moon. Described as "a being of wonderment and awe," Balerosh told Moon he was an integral part of the anti-Sanctuary (Abyssinia's group, it's a stupid name, I know) and requested the sacrifice of a 14 year-old mortal child every month.
Moon met up with other prospective members of the aS in San Francisco — mostly "Neoterics," sorcerers with unique abilities. Two of these Neoterics left soon afterwards, Moon's sheer insanity and zealous rants about how they should "rise up against the tyranny of mortals" and "join with the being who lives beyond reality" being the first warning signs that, hey, maybe these people are kind of fucking psychopaths? Not that it helped, as one of the two was the aS' soon-to-be Brainwashed and Crazy leader, Lethe.
Anyway, while the rest of the aS split up to do their parts of the plan Moon remained in America, setting up his cult to Balerosh. Every month, his followers would abduct and sacrifice a child — not always from the town, not even in the state, but wherever his followers lived there would inevitably be a missing child. Since the disappearances were so spread out it was hard to connect at first, but the cops eventually started putting things together — after all, the cultists had to come to Moon's town to do the sacrifice, and Moon himself was generally a suspicious and creepy dude, so...
After one of his followers was arrested, Moon astral projected himself in order to kill him in his cell, making it look like a suicide. Unfortunately, around the same time the police raided his house and found his comatose body in the middle of a weird ritual circle thing. They moved the body out of the circle, and when Moon's soul was drawn back to the circle he became trapped.
As part of a "coming of age" ritual, every year a group of kids come up to Moon's abandoned house and knock on the door. One year's batch of kids (Benny, Tyler, Chrissy, Pete, and the short story's nameless protagonist — we'll just call him NP for simplicity's sake) decide to go inside, coming across the circle. Pete lay down on it, allowing Moon to possess him.
The next few days, Pete doesn't come to school. NP and Chrissy get understandably worried and go to visit him, but leave after quickly realizing something's not right. His cultists (who just so happen to be around, not sure if they just stayed in town or quickly moved back) give chase, letting them go when they get to a public mall but making it very clear they'll start killing people if they tell anyone about Moon.
Moon's followers, loyal psycopaths that they were, apparently never stopped the sacrifices. They've all moved closer to town, but no one notices the disappearances since people go missing all the time. Only Chrissy is looking through the "lost teenagers" for "lost 14-year-olds." One of the first sacrifices after Moon's return is Tyler, one of NP's friends. And yes, it was totally on purpose.
There's a bit of a time-skip to the present day. While NP has moved out of town, Moon has manipulated Chrissy into getting married to an abusive asshole. She eventually divorces him, but now has a son Moon can kidnap. She had tried to move to Utah before his 14th birthday, but Moon, being a petty asshole, mails her a "Welcome to Utah" postcard and makes it perfectly clear he'll always know where she is. With her son as a hostage, Moon blackmails Chrissy into suffocate NP's father in his sleep, forcing him to come back to town. From there he proceeds to kidnap NP's son, Chrissy sadly complying so her own son will be spared from becoming the sacrifice.
Skulduggery and Valkyrie crash the ritual, getting into a fight with Balerosh while Moon drags NP and Chrissy into a vision of the night Pete got possessed. He proceeds to mockingly expose Chrissy's involvement to NP, gleefully psychologically tormenting both...
...Before the vision suddenly ends. Skulduggery and Valkyrie have, apparently quite easily, killed Balerosh offscreen. They proceed to exorcise Moon, leaving his ghost trapped in another circle and so weak he couldn't even possess a passing pigeon.
Heinous Standard
So... I know two of the guys already up have tried to kill half of all life, two have tried to summon dark gods that will kill everyone, one's an Omnicidal Maniac and one's an especially horrid school shooter. So there's already a bit of difficulty, especially since compared to even minor secondary antagonists Moon is a Big Bad Wannabe easily beaten by Skulduggery and Valkyrie.
That said? I think he works. The M.O. of being a child Serial Killer is vilely unique for this series. If he sacrifices someone every month and has been operating since the 60's, he has to have a body count in the hundreds. Even then, harassing the group that stumbled upon his circle for the rest of their lives is just so... unnecessary and petty.
Plus, since this is told from the point of view of a mortal who's never dealt with magic a day in his life, Moon's played for all the dread and horror you'd expect from an insane cult leader (whereas narration from Valkyrie would probably have him as just some asshole Villain of the Week with no personal stakes attached).
Mitigating Factors
It's implied the reason Moon so pettily stalked his host's childhood friends is because of a small portion of Pete that remained inside him, resentful he was trapped while his friends got to live normal lives. If that is the case, Moon's still clearly in charge, so if Pete came up with the idea he just took it and gleefully ran with it. Pretty sure it's not the case, but just putting it out there.
He's also a devout worshipper of Balerosh, bursting into tears when he's killed, but that's more shock and rage at the mere concept of being defeated. I'm sure we've gotten up monstrous cultists who nevertheless genuinely believe in their religion, and Moon talks about "the wonderment that awaits" so much you could easily say he only serves Balerosh for the promised reward of a personal paradise.
Other Stuff
We don't even meet Balerosh, so he's a no-go.
If Moon goes up, he'll be between Kitana and Vile.
Thoughts?
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Aug 19th 2021 at 12:57:57 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So the being the cult was set up for...is easily killed offscreen??
Anyway, I'm not sure. Dude may suffer from Van Zant syndrome. When you've got several omnicidal maniacs about, and more who aren't a CM...
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Dr. Gaius Grieves/The Thinker, though I didn't expect to see that General Mateo Suarez to go on the list, as well. Aside from the bird burning (what a dick), I figured he would toss away.
Van Zant Syndrome? Because the only Van Zant I can think of is the one from Heat.
Thinker. Good thing too because I am still sore about the one in The Flash (2014) not counting because of agency issues.
Oh, and to Suarez.
Lies and Violence!
x5 Yeah, it's both sad and funny.
In defense of the heinous standard, only the Faceless Ones and Vile's various incarnations get close to omnicide. I know Moon's not as destructive as a lot of other villains, but he's still a prolific serial killer with at least 700 victims to his name. Plus, the power Abyssinia gets from his sacrifices leads to her recruiting her army and plotting her own massive race war.
I'm honestly not too sure myself, but his pettiness and long list of murders convinced me to give him a try.
The Emperor of Evil!
Tentative yes to Moon
Edited by Powermaster201 on Aug 19th 2021 at 4:35:30 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, I've had several candidates I wasn't sure on myself.
I'll formally abstain for now.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Edited by YobabyColin on Aug 19th 2021 at 3:17:59 PM