During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Might as well put in the writeup for my Yakuza 4 candidate as well.
- Yuji Katsuura is the ringleader of a human trafficking ring. Establishing an association under the guise of helping migrant workers, Katsuura sells counterfeit passports and visas to women across Asia, and forces them into prostitution in order to pay off their debts. Katsuura regularly has his prostitutes killed for reasons such as hiding any connection to them if the police discover their status as illegals, or having no further use for them when they finally pay of their debts. When he discovers that a detective, Yusuke Kaga, helped a prostitute escape to her home and hid her child in Little Asia, Katsuura murders Kaga, and attempts to kidnap and use the child's life as a barganing chip to force the women back into working for him.
Yeah to Suzuki.
Has anyone called the movie VFW? Because I rewatched the movie and found a good candidate.
Goku Black
Don't think so.
All yours if you want to do.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Doesn't the lead villain love his brother?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Maybe it's a side villain.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
He says he loves his brother but doesn't seem at all totally affected by his death and treats him like any other goon of his. He is more conern about the supply of drugs that were taken from him.
'He says he loves his brother' is...kind of a red flag to keeping.
Yeah, it's one thing for a villain to say they love someone and do something that contradicts that statement - if they say they love someone and nothing contradicts that...well that's not what I call hollow words.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Bullman: Heck. I'll get to that tomorrow.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not giving a shit about a family member dying onscreen is one thing. Verbal admission you love them is another entirely.
The Emperor of Evil!
Wait I'm confused, he says he loves him yet he didn't give a shit about him dying? Isn't that supposed to be a subversion and contradicting on what he claims?
Yeah, I ran into that problem when I did an EP on King Deucalion in Minotaur. Kept his sister as a Sex Slave but was still begging his brother the Minotaur for her back.
Edited by k410ren on Jul 7th 2021 at 8:06:40 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Professor Gigachad
Yeah that is confusing me as well if he didn't care about him dying I think that would be a subversion I remember we have had similar cases in the past.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
It reminds me of the movie Enemy Mine, I've been wondering why the main villain qualifies even though he was upset by his brother's death.
Indeed. A lot of his actions are greed based and more about himself. Well, in any case, here's my write-up for Boz.
What Is the Work?
VFW is a 2020 American action-horror film and stars Stephen Lang, William Sadler, Martin Kove, Sierra McCormick, and Fred Williamson. Take the premise of Assault on Precinct 13, but instead of criminals, the heroes have to deal with aggressive drug addicts.
At a rundown VFW, in a city with no law & order, veterans are celebrating the birthday of their bartender Fred Parras. In runs in a desperate young woman named Lizard after stealing a massive shipment of a new, street drug called Hype. A gang of punks, led by drug dealer Boz, pursue her into the VFW and the veterans must defend her and themselves with every weapon and tactic at their disposal.
Who is Boz & What Has He Done?
Boz, the leader of the Hypers, is a drug dealer that supplies his community with Hype who does his operations out of an abandoned movie theater across from the local VFW. He opens the film murdering a drug addict of his, Lucy. He casually tosses a baggie of Hype off a balcony and makes her jump to her death, suggesting she should go after the drug. Lizard, Lucy’s sister, finds her sister dead and steals the supply of Hype. Boz sends his brother Roadie and some others to capture her, only for Roadie to be killed by the VFW veterans. Boz sends his drug-addicted Hypers to crash the veterans’ hall.
While his Hypers attack the veterans’ hall, Boz finds out that Lou, one of the vets, wants to meet with him, in hopes of making a deal to save himself and his friends. Boz takes Lou hostage and kills him as an afterthought. With dawn fast approaching, Boz orders a final assault against the VFW. He, Gutter, and the remaining Hypers go to the vet hall and prepare to kill every last one of the vets, saving Fred and Lizard for last. However, Fred tosses some of the Hype into the air and it explodes, with the Hypers inhaling the drug attacking everyone including Boz and Gutter.
In the escalating fight, Lizard is caught by Boz and forces her back to his car, taking what is left of the drugs with him. Fred manages to shoot Boz in the shoulder and the drugs. Boz, in his final moments, gloats to Fred that he would enjoy killing Fred and Lizard, allowing her to escape by catching the drugs on fire. Boz is then taken out by a Gun Truck driven by one of the remaining vets, taking himself and Boz out.
Any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Boz has a brother, though he treats him like any member of the gang. He doesn’t seem really heartbroken after his brother had died. His only concern he has is getting the supply of drugs that Lizard has taken from him.
The Heinousness Standard?
Boz engages in pointless and cruel actions like murdering Lizard's sister for no reason and gleefully admits to Fred that he's a violent and cruel sadist. But to wit, he:
• Deals and supplies a dangerous, addictive drug that is known to make people subjective to his will, including committing murder.
• Personally murders Lizard’s sister by using her addiction to Hype to make her fall off the balcony.
• Sends countless, upon countless Hypers to their death to get their drugs back.
• Orders his own gang member to assault the VFW, so they could take back the Hype supply.
• Kills Lou, who just wanted to parlay safe passage between himself and his friends, and has three other vets killed by proxy.
• In his last moments, he holds Lizard hostage, wanting her dead.
Final Verdict?
An easy keeper, considering the man does a lot of damage as a drug dealer.
Edited by TBNY on Jul 7th 2021 at 8:39:57 AM
Professor Gigachad
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Boz if it is really true he doesn't care after he died than it is more a case of Believing Their Own Lies.
I'm holding off on the film. Going to watch it myself later
@Mimic: Uhhh...when does Stubbs even mention having a brother? The movie I saw didn't have that.
The Emperor of Evil!
I haven't watched the film so if he did not care for his brother's death after all then I'll give a to Boz for now.
Sure to Boz.
Woagh
I'll wait on Lighty's word on Boz.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
I guess to Boz.
@Lightysnake
It's been a long time since i saw the movie so maybe I'm mistaken, but from what I remember the guy who accompanies Stubbs in his first scenes is supposed to be his brother, and when he dies Stubbs is furious and wants to avenge him.
That said, it's been a while since I watched it, so I could be wrong...
Edited by Mimic45 on Jul 7th 2021 at 3:10:24 PM
Okay, I just watched it again...I see the reason I missed it. He doesn't mention Johnny at all at first and he's not even upset when he sees him killed, but the end his screaming is almost incoherent, but the subtitles say "for my little brother." Without that, I wouldn't know he was yelling it
Cut Stubbs, I fucked up on this one, guys. Mea culpa.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jul 7th 2021 at 6:17:31 AM
No for the image, yes for Suzuki.