Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the duo.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Voting's never technically "over", but this seems a big enough consensus that he can be written up.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Avengers Duo
Okay, so Frank has well over 10 with 1![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
, so I'll drop this off right here:
- CSI: "Law of Gravity": Frank McCarthy is a figure from Michael Keppler's past. The father of Amy, Michael's childhood sweetheart, Frank raped his own daughter, leading to her suicide, then pinned it on an innocent man, convincing Keppler to kill him. Going on to become a Dirty Cop, Frank covered up the murders committed by Dennis Graves, and personally murdered a drug dealer. When Graves is found out, Frank kills him and a prostitute he was with to cover up his involvement. When he learns a witness was in the room, Frank attempts to kill her, only to fatally shoot Michael and attempt to kill Catherine.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
BTW there's been another IP Thread made. This is for Monster.Gundam.
I'm busy today since I'm seeing my friend who I've not seen in a good while so I'll get to Ivans writeup when I get back home.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Alright then, since my last horror EP was a bust, let me try another. This will be my first attempt at a work with more than one EP, so I'll start off with the one I am sure about, and then move on to the one I am admittedly very iffy on.
What is the Work?
Emesis Blue is a godly Team Fortress 2 horror SFM. It is a Psychological Horror surrounding the Respawn Machine, that deconstructs what an unholy abomination a device that can bring people back from the dead is. We follow Fritz Ludwig, Detective Jacques Morneau, and Jane Doe as they travel to the Conagher Slaughterhouse for various reasons. Horror ensues.You can give watch here.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Jules Archibald is an acquaintance of the Mann Brothers, having conspired with Blutarch to assassinate John F. Kennedy. The owner of the Jules Archibald Foundation and Governor of New Mexico, Jules decided to line his pockets by getting involved in the Mann Brothers' Gravel War.In order to supply them with an endless army of mercenaries, Jules invented a Respawn Machine and experimented on thousands of death row inmates. These men (one of whom we see in the opening) are condemned to wait in purgatory while they respawn, which is shown to be a very long and unpleasant process ("It's Eternity in There!"). Causing the death of 90% percent of his test subjects, the last of whom committed suicide while he was on the phone with Blutarch, Jules reveals 800,000 dead men are on his property, dumped away like trash beneath the Conagher Slaughterhouse, only kept around to occasionally sell organs to the Mann Brothers. He then sells each Mann brother a Respawn machine, ensuring years of mercenaries mindlessly killing each other and respawning in a pointless war for a useless piece of land.
During the Gravel War, Jules had Jacques Morneau execute three mercenaries for treason, personally killing Jane Doe so he can clone him into Jacques' personal assistant. Also, don't think for a second the Respawn Machine didn't horrifically malfunction while on the front lines, with Ludwig describing events where men would come back screaming.
When Jules' many crimes start to catch up with him, mainly Jeremy suing him, he fakes his kidnapping and hides out in the Slaughterhouse, where men twisted mentally and physically by the respawn guard with violence and savagery. Having Jeremy abducted and his mother murdered to stop his lawsuit against him, leading to his torture and murder at the hands of Zed Conagher, Jules attempts to escape when the place goes to Hell, only to bump into a badly burned Jacques. Pathetically begging for his life, it ultimately falls on deaf ears as a now psychotic Jacques executes him with a shot to the head.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Jules cares for no one but himself. While chatty with The Mann Brothers, he's playing them both like fiddles and cares only for the money they provide him. Also, his folder claims his relationship with Jacques is a Pet the Dog, it is not. It is strictly pragmatic, as Jacques basically needed to strong arm him into giving him the rewards he wanted. When he sees Jacques scared face after being burned alive, he lets out a horrified "My God", but simply based on the sight. Doesn't ask what happened or who did it to him, just brief shock that immediately snaps back to him begging for his life.
Also, at the end of the film where Ludwig is possibly in the afterlife, he meets Jules is a very Shining inspired bathroom where he smugly grins at him. The situation is very ambiguous to whether or not it truly happened, and even then Jules' grin is smug as Hell, so it's not like he softened up after death.
One last thing, while his victims were death row inmates, we get to see a lot of their humanity through the mercenaries we follow throughout the story. Even then, the sheer fucking quality of the men he killed makes any excuse of "they deserved it" completely moot. By the way, we see the place he dumps to the bodies, a Hellish pit filled with over half-a-million corpses. Pattern established.
Are they bad enough?
Holy. Shit. This guy might be one of the worst people I'll ever recommend. His experiments killed thousands, condemned several people to a Fate Worse than Death, and has others experience And I Must Scream just to line his own pockets.
Heck, even the actions of the Slaughterhouse mercenaries, specifically the Conagher Brothers, one of whom tortured Jeremy to death, can be laid at his feet. As the reason they're so messed up is because of the machine he built.
Final Verdict?
Firm yes.
Not the Eye
to Jules
Jules. 800,000? the fuck? It's very difficult to outclass that.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Jules.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Jules.
Anyways I have a question. Let's say that someone proposes a candidate yet it doesn't receive enough votes and ends up getting jossed, would it be possible to repost that EP until it reaches enough votes or would it be seen as irritating if it happens many times?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Jules
Gentle Laborer
Unless the candidate in question receives new info, I wouldn't recommend reposting the EP.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
In that case... I don't know? If most people abstain, then my answer is the same.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jun 5th 2023 at 2:11:32 PM
I'm referring to when it doesn't get anywhere to due lack of votes. If you did know what I meant, then I apologize.
Edited by BillyPeepers92 on Jun 5th 2023 at 10:09:20 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If there's new info, that's fine regardless.
If most people abstain...I GUESS it may be fine to try it ONCE more?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
thank you. I was asking since I am a bit concerned about some canidates coming up in the future.
Bye
Jules, Scorpio and Capricorn, Zazan, Giovanni
....Phenomenal
for Scorpio, Capircorn, and Jules.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
to Jules
I have seen Spiderverse myself. Feel free to DM
The First man
Jules. And this was Team Fortress 2 SFM fan film, and yet it manages to be legitimately horrifying.
Goku Black
Jules
Self-Declared King of Everything
Okay, finally, the promised EP from The North Road. Sadly, th3overseer's Fallout: New Vegas mod series will never be finished, and players will never get their chance to cut down Sheridan and Senator Burke. I don't really do evil playthroughs, so someone else will have to cover the slavers in Eliza, but I saw enough to EP Tex Bradshaw. I'm going to have to consider whether Sheridan can count based on only notes and reports despite being The Ghost. (Senator Burke is vile to the core, but he doesn't count because he cares for his son. Which isn't really a good thing because his son is a pedophile, but it does prove that Senator Burke is capable of love, which is a no-no for CM prospectives.)
Who is Tex Bradshaw? What has he done?
Tex Bradshaw is the leader of a large slaving operation selling people to the Legion on the North Road. He's half of the reason no communities other than Madsen can thrive on the North Road (the other half being Hader, a former Legion centurion who betrayed his century and had them killed by raiders, then took over the raiders).
When hunting down a bounty hunter named Caleb Alquist who killed innocents to undermine Sheridan, you realize there's no way to kill Alquist without the residents of Madsen to kill you. Alquist agrees to come quietly if you wipe out Bradshaw's slavers. (He's lying, but he does leave you a nice unique Brush Gun, the route to the slavers gives you access to Hader's Dragon 20K who needs to be killed in order to take on Hader, and killing the slavers is its own reward anyway.)
While killing off slavers, you find many innocent people either dead (the dead includes a caravanner who was trying to get money to get treatment for his dying son and never got the opportunity to send his son the money because of the slavers) or enslaved (and clearly brutalized in the process).
When you get into the dilapidated hotel where the slavers have made their base, you encounter Bradshaw's son, who has a woman in a nightie with a bomb collar near him at all times. A note on the younger Bradshaw's body informs you that yes, she is a Sex Slave, Tex set the collar to go off if the woman were to get farther than a few yards away from his son, and it has a remote detonation function that Tex encourages his son to use if the slave gets uppity, claiming she's easily replaceable.
When you encounter Tex Bradshaw himself, it's in a room with camera equipment set up. Several weapons, including a chainsaw and a katana, can be found on shelves stained with blood, and a dead woman can be found in the center of the room. In case it wasn't very obvious what was happening, there is a holotape on a table that describes the contents as Bradshaw torturing the woman to death for several hours, with the ease of someone who has done this many times before.
Is he bad by the standards of the work?
Well, by regular Fallout standards, absolutely. Eulogy Jones and Clanden would consider Bradshaw a kindred spirit.
The trouble is, th3overseer sets the bar a bit higher than Bethesda and Obsidian. Even ignoring every other mod he made, the villains of The North Road include a guy who combines the worst aspects of both the Legion and the Fiends (he doesn't count; he loved his family who were killed and enslaved by the Legion) and a serial child molester (we'll get to him, I think).
Even so, I think for Bradshaw, what he does is just enough. While you, the player, don't see that many actual slaves, it's clear that Bradshaw's operation is meant to be a massive slaving operation, enough that the Legion has a Centurion in the area at all times in order to safeguard the influx of slaves they get from Bradshaw. Combine that with the snuff filmography, and I think Bradshaw is enough of a bad seed to deserve a spot on the CM list.
Does he have any mitigating factors?
No, not really. Regarding whether he loves his son, there's little indication either way. Sure, he's given him a nepotism job and a personal slave, but that isn't definitive proof. There's no loving tone in his note to his son, unlike the messages sent by Senator Burke to his human garbage son.
Verdict?
I think he qualifies, but I would be willing to listen to arguments to the contrary.
Edited by Critica7 on Jun 5th 2023 at 5:23:31 AM
Check out my current fanfiction project.
Not the Eye
The Ultimate Lifeform
to Texas Bradshaw and Jules
to Tex
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jun 5th 2023 at 3:38:16 PM