Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Lily and Ryuji
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Entity
Okay hearing input from others I’m switching to a to the Entity. Still keeping by for the Commander though
A bit late on Ganondorf voting, but . I just need to use RedHunter543's current avatar as justification for my choice.
Put Sortilej directly above the Three Kings (issue 3 and issue 15 respectively).
- Red Sonja:
- "The Games of Gita": Queen Sortilej holds cruel reign over the twin cities of Athos and Zotoz, forcing the Zotozians into a cruel caste system where they toil and suffer as slaves of Athos. Worse still, the Queen establishes a twisted Olympics-style "game" where Athosian athletes and Zotozian slaves are made to participate against each other. The Zotozians face an inevitable Morton's Fork in their "participation"; if they lose, they're executed, and if they win, they're executed—alongside the Athosian losers.
- Kung Fu Panda: The Paws of Destiny: Jindiao was the original Dragon Warrior until his hunger for power corrupted him and drove him to kill his four students, the Four Constellations, in his attempt to become a god. His spirit kicked out of his body, Jindiao possessed a vulture and survived by drinking the chi of "lesser beings" for one-thousand years. Jindiao seeks once again "enslave the world in fire and fury," regularly attempting to Mind Rape, corrupt or kill Po and his four young students, the new Four Constellations, and eventually attempts to wipe out all of Panda Village and everyone in it out of spite. At one point one of their allies, Bunnidharma, takes a lethal blow meant for Po and dies in his arms—upon which Jindiao laughs in his face. A dreadful boss as well, Jindiao kills, beats and throws his minions to the wolves with aplomb. Even his most treasured student Jade Tusk, whom Jindiao mentored for years, is thrown away almost unthinkingly by him when one of the heroes tries to use her as a hostage.
Edited by Scraggle on May 27th 2023 at 3:05:09 AM
Goku Black
Jindiao is from season one and the white bone demon is from season 2 right?
Guess thats it till dragon knight season 2 or if chameleon counts in king fu panda 4?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Actually Dragon Knight season 2 released a while ago.
Switch abstain to the Entity.
Edited by EmperorGeode on May 27th 2023 at 2:21:55 AM
Goku Black
Oh by the way. Didn't ravok recommends a reformatting of the monster marvel animation page. So the stuff in the Same universe is together.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RIP Toriyama
Yeah Jindiao is Season 1, the White Bone Demon is Season 2. Great write-ups, Scrags! Yes to the Ebirah duo, too.
Edited by Ravok on May 27th 2023 at 2:30:12 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Alright...for that Scravok relitigation...we have some Ace Attorney villains we're looking into. Some of these guys have a contentious history of being brought up in the thread's long lifespan, but I think these should conclude the discussions for good according to our current rules.
First up, from the very first Ace Attorney...
- Pompous, pretentious, flamboyantly condescending—any byword for "Smug Snake" applies to Redd White, the insidious CEO of Bluecorp. Redd White vaguely describes Bluecorp as a company meant for "buying and selling information." In practice, this translates to blackmail. A modern-day Milverton, Redd White has his fingers dug into the lives of literally hundreds of people, judges, attorneys, prosecutors, policemen, politicians. And sometimes—often, even—his fingers go so deep his victims kill themselves.
- The main villain of the second case in the first game, "Turnabout Sisters," Phoenix Wright learns about a variety of Redd White's victims in his investigation, many of which affect the series in a way lasting far past this game. For starters, he's the one who ruined the name of the psychic Fey clan, exposing their secret role in the investigation of Gregory Edgeworth—and utterly ruining their reputation when the Feys blame the wrong person for Gregory's murder.
- It gets worse: when Mia Fey, eldest daughter of the Fey clan, becomes a prosecutor himself and begins collecting evidence against Redd and his blackmail, including the many suicides Redd has caused, Redd personally breaks into her office and murders her by smashing her skull with a statuette, then proceeds to try and frame her younger sister Maya for the deed.
- Redd also has leverage over another character, Marvin Grossberg; having gotten the tip about the Fey clan from Marvin and having convinced Grossberg to sell him the info, when the police started looking for Marvin, Redd turned against Marvin, forcing the man to serve his every whim for fifteen years under the threat of turning him over to the police, utterly breaking him and degrading him with this abuse. Redd's also not above implicating his own secretary (who, granted, is a nasty hag herself) as a scapegoat for the blackmail he ordered her to do.
- When Phoenix Wright comes a-knockin' in the investigation of Mia Wright's death, Redd White basically tells Phoenix Screw the Rules, I Have Connections!, making no effort whatsoever to hide his sliminess and even punching Phoenix right in the gut, daring Phoenix to charge him with assault. When Phoenix continues to press the case, even confronting Redd White with an article of one of the politicians he drove to suicide, Redd switches tactics and decides to frame Phoenix for Mia's murder, going so far as to testify as a witness against Phoenix.
- Thankfully, Redd White is a terrible fucking manipulator when he doesn't just have connections and status he can abuse, and Phoenix and Mia eventually get him to a point where they blackmail him into confessing by threatening to publicly release the hundreds of names Mia had gathered. Redd is convicted and arrested, and never seen again.
- Redd White is the proto-Matt Engarde or Roger Retinz or what-have-you in that while he's not the Big Bad and he's the villain of a one-off case, he stands out for how utterly slimy he is in comparison to the dozens of other murderers later in the series, who range anywhere from Tragic Villain to scumbags who simply don't make the impression Redd does. Redd controls and ruins the lives of hundreds of people through systemic blackmail—demonstrated lovingly by what he does to the Fey clan and Grossberg—and some go so far as to kill themselves. Redd has the scale of a Big Bad; most of the one-off killers only go for one people or maybe a couple, but Redd White ruins innocent lives in the triple digits.
- Now, here's the point I originally was staunchly against him on: Offstage Villainy. Way back when the rules were stricter, I made a point when he was posted that the suicides he's responsible for would fall under Offstage Villainy: that as a series which focuses on the investigation and prosecution of crimes, we don't get enough direct evidence to qualify those onscreen, particularly given Redd doesn't have an explicitly numbered victim count.
- Okay, that said, OV rules have loosened. First off I think my initial arguments that the suicides aren't focused on are inaccurate. They're not the focal point of the episode (that would be Mia's murder) but covering up the suicides and the general blackmail was the reason Redd killed, and Phoenix later sifts through the evidence Mia gathered herself. One huge detail I forgot: out of the hundreds of general blackmail cases Mia has amounted against Redd, the "suicide" folder is explicitly noted to be the largest section, which brings the suicide count up from "vague and numberless" to "potentially dozens." Combined with the stuff we do get, that factors directly into game play—a newspaper clipping of a suicide that Phoenix uses as evidence against Redd, the blackmail list Mia and Phoenix use to expose him at the end, and to be quite honest, I think we have more than enough to overcome Offstage Villainy. That he still doesn't have a specific victim count bothers me, but refreshing myself on details, the game comfortably implies it's a lot.
- Let's make this quick and say "zip." Redd White about as subtle as a punch to the gut (literally!) about his lack of any redeeming qualities. He's even willing to use his own loyal secretary as a scapegoat for his own crimes, and she can be convinced to turn against him on the reasonable fear he might kill her if she says too much.
Edited by Scraggle on May 27th 2023 at 3:53:37 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Aaaaaaand I'm back!
Yes to Redd White reading those new arguments.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
redd
Wonder if we can use Him killing Mia with the bat for an image for Monster.Ace Attorney?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Welcome back Wet!
to Redd White, I remember this creep from Anime.
RIP Toriyama
Rock solid YES to Redd White with all in account, excellent job!
Alright, for mine from Ace Attorney...hailing from Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2, in which Phoenix's rival frenemy Miles Edgeworth investigates a decades-spanning criminal scheme, we have the Disc-One Final Boss.
Who is Blaise Debeste? What has he done?
- Once the Chief Prosecutor, now the Chairman of the P.I.C. (Prosecutorial Investigation Committee) itself, Blaise Debeste puts up the front of a weepy, motorcycle-loving Reasonable Authority Figure, but is in fact a gleeful sadist and bully who has long used his position to abuse those beneath him.
- For years, Blaise has corrupted the justice system and carried out an abundant amount of miscarriages of justice. He fabricates autopsies, destroys evidence, and intimidates witnesses into getting the convictions he desires. Blaise openly brags that countless defendants have thrown themselves on the mercy of the court and struck plea bargains with Blaise, only for Blaise to cruelly betray them and get them the maximum sentences just to "see the dumbfounded looks on their faces."
- Blaise also throughout the game uses the Deadly Euphemism of "disappearing" to describe the people he has had framed, locked away, and executed for crossing him. He notes that anyone and everyone who has ever annoyed him has met this fate, attributing the absence of his son Sebastian's mother to this very fate.
- Oh, and speaking of Sebastian? Blaise is one of the worst Abusive Parents in the whole franchise. He raised his son with a perfectionist, abused sense of being a prosecutor like his dad, and bribed officials to earn Sebastian to the top spots in his classes just so his "idiot" child wouldn't humiliate him. He verbally abuses Sebastian in every single scene to the point of tears, calling him nothing but a moron, and when it serves him to silence Sebastian during a critical moment, Blaise gives him such a harsh "The Reason You Suck" Speech that the boy breaks down into shrieking tears and runs away. Blaise reacts to the horror of even his fellow cold-blooded prosecutors by simply noting his son is nothing but a "pawn" to him.
- Blaise's misuse of evidence is at its peak in the form of his "auctions". Under the guise of "the Conductor", he auctions off valuable evidence to cases in black market crime rings, ensuring that cases he tries are never able to re-use evidence to help anyone he has falsely convicted.
- Now, for specifics...Blaise is the Greater-Scope Villain of the entire first game in the series. Years ago, he forced Dr. Young to manufacture an autopsy on a missing body just to get a guilty verdict of an innocent man quicker. Blaise used dogged prosecutor von Karma as his pawn in this case, tricking him into presenting the faulty autopsy, and though the case ultimately went von Karma's way, and an innocent man locked up for murder? Blaise blamed the whole autopsy mishap on von Karma and penalized him just for lulz, which is what pushed the perfectionist von Karma into murder and mayhem.
- In a scheme some time later, Blaise teamed up with the body double of the President of Zheng Fa to assassinate the true President and install the body double in his place. Blaise bribed fellow corrupt head Patricia Roland into helping, and they hired the assassin Dogen to bump off the President. Further, Blaise, Roland and the body doubly murdered an innocent reporter, Jack Cameron, to cover up the death of the true President.
- After Dogen killed the President, Blaise and Roland planned to kill Dogen to silence loose ends, but he slipped away with help of a young boy named Simon Keyes. In response, Blaise and Roland psychologically tortured Simon for months, constantly interrogating and hounding him 24/7, kidnapping and keeping him in a terrible orphanage in the hope of learning where Dogen escaped to.
- As a result of this, the body double in the President's chair slowly ran Zheng Fa into the ground with his inability to rule. Directly because of Blaise's machinations with the body double, Zheng Fa was infiltrated by a ruthless smuggling ring that devastated its economy and ruined the lives of many of its citizens. Blaise further ruined the livelihoods of the Lang clan, bodyguards of the President, for trying to expose the truth.
- Now, years later, Blaise continues to rule the prosecution committee with a harsh, corrupt fist, helping the body double and Roland get away with their own murderous schemes, while a now-adult Simon Keyes is out for revenge.
- Keyes informs the girlfriend, Jill Crane, of the late Jack Cameron's death and of Blaise's involvement, then anonymously informs Blaise that Crane is planning to get revenge. Blaise forcibly blackmails Karin, the granddaughter of Dr. Young, into helping him murder Crane, threatening to frame her Granny solely for all the false autopsies he forced her into if she doesn't help, and he eliminates Crane, stripping her body naked after bashing her head with a gavel. Blaise then goes about framing the innocent, amnesiac 17 year old Kay for the murder, preying on her sense of guilt to try to give her the maximum sentence.
- When Miles and co. begin investigating, Blaise tries to stymie their efforts and threatens them all with being "disappeared", but he is ultimately exposed by Miles and arrested. Refusing to go down without a fight, Blaise orders the 12 year old son of Judge Courtney be kidnapped and threatened with death to try to force her into a non-guilty verdict. When this results in his men instead kidnapping and traumatizing his own son Sebastian instead, Blaise cares nothing for the boy's pain and instead further abuses and threatens Sebastian for finally standing up to him. But Sebastian manages to finally overcome his father's cruelty, and helps Miles bring him to justice for good.
Mitigating features?
No, none at all. Blaise is a corrupt, smug sadist who happily brags how much he loves bullying people to the point of utter despair, and he's raised his son with this very method. Sebastian is an emotional wreck who is constantly belittled and abused by his dad, and when the boy tries to finally stand up to him, Blaise graduates to physically threatening Sebastian. He doesn't care one lick about his son or anyone else, even his partner for awhile Courtney being plainly threatened by Blaise with a "disappearance."
Heinousness?
So, the franchise has plenty of nasties, enough for its own CM page, but Blaise is more than bad enough. A thing that has come up in the past is that the true Big Bad, Simon Keyes, is "just as bad" or worse than Blaise despite having fewer resources...this, in essence, is false. Simon is an Anti-Villain who laid the groundwork for Blaise, the body double and Roland to expose themselves via murder (like Blaise killing Crane) or some other method, and while that makes him a villain, it was all primarily targeted against using these bastards' own ruthless to punish them for ruining his childhood and hurting countless people. All of Simon's doing was in the hope of taking the villains worse than him down, and even though he, too, kidnaps Courtney's son, to try to force her into convicting Blaise? He openly says he wasn't going to hurt the boy, unlike Blaise, and the kid is totally fine after he's rescued as opposed to Sebastian whose kidnapping was a worse experience.
Blaise is behind a lot. He has "disappeared" and ruined countless people through his corrupt prosecution system for both his own power and just for kicks—and yes, it's onscreen enough to attribute decades' worth of faulty cases and framed innocents to him—he has horribly abused his son for years, he worked with the body double to arrange the murder of the President, Jack Cameron, and then the attempted killing of the assassin they hired—this assassination directly leading to the destabilization of Zheng Fa—he worked with Roland to torment and terrorize Simon for months, he kills Crane when she comes seeking revenge for Jack's death and frames it on a teenage girl, he covers up even more murders committed by his allies, and he caps it all off by trying to kidnap Courtney's son and explicitly threaten him with death.
Blaise is far, far more evil, twisted and nasty than Simon, and the vast majority of other Ace Attorney villains, too. He's a cruel, heinous piece of shit who's over the standard for the series for the amount of suffering he has inflicted, even while "only" killing one person with his bare hands.
Edited by Ravok on May 27th 2023 at 3:42:57 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Redd White (Welcome back you fancy sociopath) and Blaise.
Sure to Redd and Blaise
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Not the Eye
to Blaise
Abso-posi-lutely to White and to Blaise. I am surprised that Blaise is getting repropsed and that you are an Ace Attorney fan, Ravok.
Goku Black
blaise
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Redd and Blaise.
Also, for the umpteenth time, you don't need to wait for me to update the Pending page.
Edited by ACW on May 27th 2023 at 6:15:19 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
R & B.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Redd and Blaise
Redd and Blaise
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Yes to Blaise but wasn't he a reoccurring issue enough to be a NA listing or was it mostly due to the Simon argument you listed?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
I originally voted yes because the EP seems to present it as an intelligent thing actively taunting and tormenting the protagonist, but if other people who've seen the movie are saying no, it's not actually that clear-cut, then I'm gonna switch to abstain for Entity.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
for Ebirah duo though.
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.