Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Belos and Odalia.
Goku Black
@acw: Uh money. He even admits he does these hit jobs for cash (greed).
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Okay, one from fanfic that is infamous on this thread
What is the Work?
Ruby and Nora is RWBY Alternate Universe fanfic series following titular couple. Darker and Edgier than canon, it already has number of keepers, uncluding one of brother gods. But what about other one.
Who is Void? What has he done?
God of Darkness, one of countless gods in the multiverse. Unlike others he couldn’t create universes, until his brother Light came to him. Offering him a deal, Void will kill gods, enabling Light will absorb all suns and stars in their universes, killing all beings in them and growing powerfull enought to owerthrown Supreme god, Spectrum.
Captured after doing it to countless universes. Spectrum had them banished to his world Remnant in order to learn lesson. Less than a week in brothers slaudgered whole humanity, prompting Spectrum to has them imprisoned. Light was traped within his own body with more benevolent personality, while Void was traped in the orb and buried in what will eventually become Atlas.
Void made contact with cruel princess Salem, empowering her (helping create the Grimm) and promising her that he will make her Goddes in enchange for his freedom. Salem leads Grimm in to destruction and death on Massive scales, personally destroying Beacon academy and Kingdom of Vacuo to retrieve Relics neccesary to free Void.
Free at last, Void depowers Salem, absorbs all creatures of Grimm into himself and creates Black Hole to devour whole Remnant, promising to kill Salem last. With knowelge from Light, Nora sacrifices himself in order to activate Ruby’s silver eyes, ending the mad god.
Reddeming Qualities?
He felt insecure since he couldn’t create like other gods and at first was even disgusted with all lives his brother wished to destroy for power.
That said, by time of trial Void has pretty much abadoned any doubts he had, having no qualms about killing all of Remnant’s inhabitants and empowering Salem and causing untold suffering in order to get his revenge, with no love for his brother and story making clear his issues absolutely don’t excuse anything he has done.
Heinouss standard?
So this fanfic has enormuss standard. To be brief, Void is worst alongside his brother. Assisting Light in destroying countless universes (so many that even Omnipotent Jinn dosen’t know exact number) and slaugthering humanity. Plus empowering Salem, making him responsible for existence of Grimm and all Salem’s crimes, only to try to destroy whole Remnant when freed.
Conclusion?
Pass.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:04:49 AM
Big big BIG yes to Belos! Yes to Odalia as well.
Outdated af account
Here's a candidate I was actually preparing to propose a considerable while ago before the original CM proposals thread got shut down. I've been saving it for a while since and I'm glad to finally have it up for voting on. PLEASE NOTE that despite the fact I've watched this entire series and enjoyed it (primarily for the So Bad, It's Good quality), it doesn't reflect on my own personal views and beliefs. Anyway, moving forward!
What's the work?
The Apocalypse quadrilogy is a Left Behind "inspired" series of evangelical films chronicling the end of the world after the Rapture occurs. The main protagonist is Helen Hannah, the former anchor of World News Network, now disgraced and made the number one enemy of international law-enforcement agency One Nation Earth (O.N.E.) after converting to Christianity in a time when it is deemed a hate crime against humanity. After the public execution of her fiancee and co-anchor Bronson Pearl at the order of the Antichrist, she manages to escape captivity and is forced to take up a small band of fellow believers to oppose him and to bring as many people to Christ as they can before it's too late.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Franco Macalousso, also known as the Antichrist, is the leader of One Nation Earth and the former head of the European Union. He declares himself the true savior and creator of humanity after he steps onto the Mount of Olives in the middle of a nuclear war, declared World War III by the media, and all the nuclear missiles in mid-launch at the time of the event vanish from the face of the planet, as well as all the people on Earth who have professed their faith in Christ. He quickly becomes the leader of the entire planet in the midst of all the chaos, establishing O.N.E. as a worldwide agency to ensure that anybody who doesn't pledge full loyalty to him and his leadership is imprisoned and executed for treason.
Over the course of the quadrilogy, he commits such heinous deeds as publicly executing Bronson Pearl and forcing his fiancee Helen Hannah to watch, having the second movie's main protagonist Thorold Stone executed the same way (his execution is an off-screen event mentioned in the third movie), lying to the world to deem the Christians as haters so they can be thrown into concentration camps worldwide and either tormented or outright murdered for their beliefs, and attempting to overthrow God himself by turning as many people as possible away from him and permanently damning their souls to eternal torment by requiring them to take a mark that removes their humanity.
He also shows up as the Image of the Beast inside of VR-like headsets, where he personally murders countless believers and manipulates many others into taking his deadly mark. And he has no qualms with killing his own followers when they fail him, as proven with his fatal strangling of Calvin Canboro after he fails to convert his brother. He even takes his battle with Helen Hannah to international court, a place where he'd already ordered the execution of the father of defense attorney Mitch Kendrick (the fourth film's main protagonist), and as the event is televised all over the planet, he continues showing his usual cover of polite charm with the audience to sway them to his side even as he lies so blatantly as to have the entire trial scripted out, with an unsurprising "guilty" verdict in the end for Helen.
Any redeeming or mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse of any kind?
Not at all. He puts on a poor act of wanting to unite the world for the sake of peace for mankind, even though he realizes how extreme the means are to justify the ends. But his true motives very frequently bubble to the surface, as in Revelation, he confides with Thorold Stone that he has no intentions of saving humanity, but rather that he wishes to drag humanity down with him when he's banished by God into the eternal lake of fire. In Tribulation, he confides the same thing to Helen Hannah when she winds up in his "virtual" reality, which is recorded on a secret camera and broadcast on an international television hijacking of his live speech to the world, which causes him to have a meltdown on live TV afterward.
His reason for wanting to take humanity with him to eternal torment, which is that he despises God for throwing him out of Heaven when he thought himself better and attempted to revolt, is far too petty to be in any way sympathetic or redeeming. He has a couple of possibly laughable moments (such as his live meltdown), but they're much too few and far between to be detracting or even particularly notable. He never shows any genuine care or love for anybody, as evidenced when he gladly kills off one of his own loyal minions, Calvin Canboro, and in his lack of any kind of remorse for the deaths of two of his top lackeys and fellow demons, Len Parker and Agent Jones. In a deleted ending to the final movie, Judgment, he even implies to two more of his minions, Victoria Thorne and the unnamed judge of Helen Hannah's trial, that he has an unkind fate planned for them when he tells them the following:
EDIT: Forgot to mention that the Made of Evil argument which applies to the original Biblical version of Satan doesn't apply here, as a self-made explanation of his motives and backstory to Thorold Stone in the second film, Revelation, reveals that he was created by God with the intent to be like any other angel of his kind, a warrior and worshipper for God, but that he was given free will by God and that he decided himself better, attempting to lead a revolt that led to his banishment.
Does he pass the heinous standard?
There are only two characters from the franchise that I would say measure up to him in terms of heinousness and have a fair shot themselves at being Complete Monsters, those being his top two henchmen Len Parker (Apocalypse; Revelation) and Agent Jones (Tribulation). One thing that sets them apart from other minions such as Calvin Canboro and Victoria Thorne is that they're not regular human beings converted by force and manipulation to the side of the Antichrist, but rather that they're fellow demons taking human form and are as fully aware of the intention of their evildoings as Macalousso, taking sadistic enjoyment from their murder and torment of the "haters". However, despite the large number of evildoings they commit of their own accord, everything they do is ultimately done for the sake of serving Franco Macalousso and furthering his own malicious goals.
Franco does also have far more resources than his two toadies, but he does not in the slightest fail to use them to their full potential for corrupt wrongdoing, as he personally executes millions of people and successfully coerces countless more into joining him within his seemingly virtual landscape, a project he calls the "Day of Wonders" and makes mandatory to all people around the globe. With this in mind, he easily surpasses the baseline and then some, with little contest as the most heinous character in the franchise.
Final Verdict! An easy "yes" to this fusion of Satan and the Antichrist, whose mass genocide of Christianity and ultimate plans to take down the rest of humanity make him a uniquely monstrous evildoer.
Edited by Lumberwood on Apr 25th 2023 at 11:10:28 AM
Sincerely, Lumberwood
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, so Rogin's basically a hitman who forces others to do the actual killing?
Yes to Void.
Abstain on the above.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Yeah pretty much. As Dr. Sloan says. Desperate, dying people will do anything to pkeep their families safe after their gone. And Rogin takes advantage of it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Ultimate Lifeform
to Void.
Abstain on The Antichrist, since I think it could be argued that as the biblical emissary of Satan, he is Made of Evil.
Edited by ForgoLight on Apr 23rd 2023 at 8:52:39 AM
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Outdated af account
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
My bad, I should have mentioned that the film quadrilogy specifically points out that Franco/Satan isn't Made of Evil and that God had originally created him with the intent for him to be a warrior and worshipper like the other angels of his kind. This is mentioned in Revelation when Franco is telling Thorold his backstory and his motive. He turned on God because he was given free will, so he doesn't have any moral agency issues in that department.
Edited by Lumberwood on Apr 23rd 2023 at 7:21:19 AM
Sincerely, Lumberwood
Goku Black
Franco
Not the Eye
to Franco
Franco, Void, Ernst
The Ultimate Lifeform
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
What happens to Franco?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Antichrist
Yeah assuming if there's nothing wrong, there's 2 movie antichrists.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Rogin, Void, and Franco.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
- La Quica is a sadistic, cowardly sicario under the employ of Pablo Escobar. First introduced gunning down the partner of narrator Steve Murphy, Quica commits several atrocities for his boss ranging from carrying out hits, torture, the recruitment of child soldiers and helping him trick a young Colombian into blowing up both himself and the over 100 passengers on his plane. After corrupting his friend Limon into becoming one of Escobars hitmen, Quica murders the entire staff of a local brothel as retaliation for being almost arrested. Abandoning his boss when his power base is crumbling, Quica attempts to flee with some of his money before ultimately selling out Pablos entire organization to the Search Bloc.
The Timeless One
Belos(about time) and a smaller one to Odalia.
Finally I can say Phillip is worse(as in more intimidating and better handled) than Kipo's Dr. Emilia. I honestly felt Kipo flubbed it's final conflict, and glad this show had the heroine go apeshit and destroy the genocidal monster. And not constantly trying to reason with the villain until they screw themselves over out of contrived luck.
Edited by Snailfish on Apr 23rd 2023 at 10:14:16 AM
"I am the lord of Purity, who tolerates no deviation." My first online story
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Please add to the Drafts.
Also, FWIW wiki has his full name as Juan Diego "La Quica" Díaz.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Franco, Void, Ernst
Current mood: sick of your shit
Void, Antichrist
Yes to Sy, Hung, Valli, Rogin, the Void, and Franco.
I listened to an audio version of the 2006 Marvel novel, Fantastic Four: The Baxter Effect by Dave Stern, where the Mad Thinker steals a device from Reed Richards called the Q-Ray and uses it to rewrite reality to give himself an ideal life. However it caused other changes, Reed Richards is single, and the Human Torch is now a corporate scumbag named Tony Yates, not Johnny Storm. Also, Ben Grimm is human, married to Alicia Masters, and has 2 children. The Thinker doesn't count, but someone, someone infamous, has a different role in this reality. This is going to be quick, because I am not covering the main villain, despite the character being really famous.
Who is Dr. Doom? What has he done?
In this reality, Dr. Doom has taken over Russia and renamed it Imperial Russia, and has recreated the Iron Curtain by conquering all of Eastern Europe. Doom has powered up a minor Sorcerer named Jembay Diehl and is using him as a pawn to attack the Fantastic Four. Diehl attacks the FF directly, with Diehl killing Johnny Storm (who is now a non-powered civilian) by setting him on fire and attempting to kill Susan Storm by trapping her in a force field without air, but Reed Richards defeats Diehl and traps him using Dr. Strange's magically items. Diehl escapes using his magic, but Doom kills him off-screen.
Deciding to take a more direct approach, Doom goes to the Baxter Building and uses his magic to kill a visiting military official named William Stryker (who is actually just a normal military colonel in this reality) and mind control Tony Yates and Susan's friend Millie, having them attack the FF. Doom even revives Styker's body to attack them. Doom eventually kills off his mind-controlled pawns and attacks himself. Doom now has a demonic appearance, with claws for hands, having sold his soul to demons in exchange for power. Doom knows that after the Thinker used the Q-Ray to rewrite reality and it created a crack, in reality, itself, a crack Doom will use to destroy reality, give himself god-like powers and remake the universe in his image. Doom and the Fantastic Four have an epic battle, with the FF seemingly losing, however, a waitress from the Baxter Building, Olga Javelka, comes upon the fight. Olga is from Eastern Europe and she just happens to have a magic amulet. Olga is able to use the amulet to hold back Doom and the amulet also revives Johnny Storm and gives him his powers and gives Susan Storm her powers too. It also turns Ben Grimm into the Thing. Doom takes the amulet from Olga and ends her magic assistance to the FF.
The Fantastic Four renew their attack on Doom and Doom starts to lose. Doom promises to give the Thing and Reed Richards their own islands free from the destruction he will unleash where they can live with their loved ones forever. Neither Reed nor the Thing falls for it and the Fantastic Four seemingly kills Doom. However, Doom gets up one last time, kills Reed with his claws, and is satisfied he took out his hated enemy, then dies for real.
Is he heinous by the standards of work?
Doom wants to destroy reality to make himself a god. The only other villain in the book is the Thinker, who is not heinous enough.
Any Fruedian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
So this Doom has none of the usual redeeming qualities, so that's out. He seems to have willingly sold his soul for power but did not lose his moral agency.
Now the Thinker has rewritten reality and one could argue that Doom is only this way due to the Thinker's rewriting of reality. However, the Thing and Reed did not become bad people because the Thinker rewrote reality and the Thinker did not mean to change Doom's normal role in the universe. I do not think this Doom lacks moral agency. This Doom is like the Doom from the Unthinkable story becoming the default status for the character.
Final Verdict?
Keep this alternate reality Dr. Doom.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Doom.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
doom.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
