Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
If its confirmed to be the same guy ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Hank.
Yes to Reaper AI, Garfield and Hank.
For my next NYPD Blue candidate, we start going from the regular serial killers to some gross sickos. This character is episode 2, season 3, ''Torah, Torah, Torah''. The episode is named after the B-plot, the cops tracking down an ancient Torah stolen from a synagogue and held for ransom, the A-plot deals with a disgusting Serial Killer, this one is going to be gross:
Who is Roger Squires? What has he done?
Roger Squires is a Serial Killer who stalks the subways looking for women with large breasts. When he finds a potential victim, he follows her home and sees if she lives on the first floor. If she lives on the first floor, he takes a milk crate and sees if he can he can open the window and if the bed is near the window. If all those conditions are met, Squires goes in for the kill. He waits until the lights have been off an hour, opens the window, gropes his victim's breasts with one hand and violently stabs her to death with the other. He also takes possessions as trophies from his victim's apartment. Squires has claimed 6 victims until the cops start catching on to his trail.
Squires has killed a woman named Jennifer Wuthrich and Jennifer's father blames his mentally handicapped son for her death and wants the cops to arrest him. Some detective work from Officer Bobby Simone reveals a pattern of women being stabbed to death on first-floor apartments and rooms. Another detective, Stuart Morrissey has charged a man, Mr. Kasinzakas with the death of his wife, who was actually killed by Squires. Detective Simone has Squires questioned and Squires admits he is going on a rent strike because he thinks his landlord keeps the apartment building in a poor state. Simone convinces the landlord of the building that Squires made racist comments against him and his wife and the landlord decides to evict Squires then and there, throwing his stuff on the street. Simone picks up a foot locker from the street that belonged to Squires, which has his knife collection in it.
Simone states that he can get a judge to give him the warrant to open the footlocker, Squires admits his guilt and tells about his M.O., getting sexually excited while he describes how he murders women. Simone sends him off to booking to be charged with all 6 murders.
Is he heinous by standards of the work?
So Webster may have more victims than Squires, but Squires killed 6 women in an extremely brutal fashion, groping them and violently stabbing them to death and he only goes in for the kill if all of his conditions are met. He is careful about how he chooses his victims.
There are other serial killers I am talking about at the end who I am not sure about, a serial rapist/murderer who killed 4 women and a serial killer who kills women going to AA, killing 4 women and trying to kill a 5th who was an undercover cop by strangling them there are also serial killers who don't count like Malcolm Cullinan, who kills women by getting them to OD on drugs, he has a body 4 including people he tried to kill and actually killed and felt guilt over his crimes.
Jennifer is the only victim we see on screen, but the cops describe a pattern and charge him with 6 murders, I think he be held responsible for 6 murders.
I think Squires stands out due to his brutality and 6 is a pretty good body count for this series, where there are a ton of episodes where a criminal kills one person.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
Nah, Squires rubs his eyes after telling Simone his story, but I think that was him trying to compose himself after getting sexually excited, rather due to guilt or shame. Squires starts off as a slimy, smug bastard when the cops first pick him up and degenerates into a disgusting sexual sadist by the end.
Final Verdict?
Keep.
Edited by Overlord on Mar 31st 2024 at 5:50:13 AM
Not the Eye
The Draftsman of Doom
Yea to Squires and Webster.
Feels good, don't it?
to Roger Squires. Depending how common rapists are in this series, four victims might be enough.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Squires
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The issue with the rapist/murderer in question is not heinousness, it's a potential mitigating factor.
Edited by Overlord on Mar 31st 2024 at 4:44:07 AM
Goku Black
squires.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Squires.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Harbinger of Cringe
Well heyo everyone! Been a bit since I've done something on this thread huh? Regardless, a friend recently brought to my attention a character who I think has a fair shot at counting, and I gotta admit, it's an interesting one, but one I think has a shot regardless. So without further ado! Let us begin.
What is the Work?
"OBEY" is a song created by Shavs Media Productions done in collaboration with Music/longestsoloever. Based on the up and coming web series that took the internet by storm, The Amazing Digital Circus, the song revolves around it's main antagonist Caine, as he welcomes Pomni to the digital plain and encouraging her to give up her hunt for an exit and instead give into the circus. Bringing up past examples of those who lost their minds in attempt to find an exit, Caine cheerfully sings of how Pomni will be spending the rest of eternity in his digital realm where he has all control and they'll be forced to play his games as everyone begins to lose their minds, to which he shows complete apathy towards. The song ultimately ends with Pomni seemingly running off, presumably out of fear or a need to leave this digital hell.
Who is Caine? What has he done?
Caine serves as the main antagonist of this song. A far cry from his naive, well-meaning self in the original show, Caine is portrayed as a gleeful ringmaster who shows full awareness of the suffering and pain caused by the circus, yet chooses to continue, using the past victims of abstraction to discourage Pomni from going down the same path and encouraging her to blindly obey, Caine shows no true care towards what his realm has done to others, simply using their plight to prove a point and dismissing the fact that Kinger was clearly losing it, as everyone else also is.
Mitigating Factors?
To get the biggest stuff out the way, no I don't think this runs into the problem of future Digital Circus episodes possibly creating issues with this character. The song itself makes it very clear that it exists in its own canon, with it utilizing its own lore and characters. This is very clearly fanon and thus doesn't need to worry about things from canon.
As for plot? Yeah this doesn't really have any problems. Not only do we get visuals showing what Caine's realm has done to others, but the song itself isn't just about him singing about how evil he is. Hell we even have an entire segment from Kinger, who sings about how he's losing it due to all the friends he's lost a long with losing all his memories. Plus the song itself does follow a loose plot of Pomni being trapped in the circus and Caine trying to convince her to give up all hope, so it isn't just a song where Caine gloats about being evil (hell he tries to make you think otherwise).
Now when it comes to Caine himself? Nothing major really. He's goofy yes, but the psychological affect his realm has on the members of the circus are played for horror and have a lot of gravity behind them, with Caine's goofiness more serving to show how twisted he is and how he views everyone's suffering as a complete joke. He does mention Kinger losing his mind as being "horrifying" but he completely squashes any chance of that being genuine standards when the very next lyric has him going "anyway" completely dismissing what just happened entirely.
As for Affability concerns? Yeah no, any kindness he shows is only to convince Pomni to become completely subserviant to him, and otherwise he shows no care towards the previous circus members who abstracted, instead using them to try and "teach" Pomni to obey his every order.
Heinous Standard?
This one's a pretty easy clear. The song itself makes it obvious that the circus itself? Is more or less a Fate Worse Than Death, with the circus members completely losing sight of who they are, slowly losing their minds, and when worst comes to worst, turns them into horrific creatures that lose and and all sapience and identity. To which Caine just casually drops them in the cellar like nothing.
And while you could argue that he's trying to stop people from abstracting, that really doesn't mean much when the digital realm is already a hellscape for the circus members outside of that, one where they will spend the rest of eternity. And it's all run by him at the end of the day. He oversees everything. He is the one bring people to their breaking point, he is the one submitting them to their cruel fates. And this isn't just a few victims either. From what we see, at least seven people abstracted in this place already, so yeah, pretty nasty stuff.
Verdict?
I'm thinkin' yes on this one, but at the end of the day it's up to you!
My mere presence makes everyone's day worse.
RIP Toriyama
Yes to the Reaper AI, "Uncle" Hank and Squires, great work, all!
Gonna reserve season 2 of Fright Krewe now that it's out.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
@ACW For the Ain't Slayed Nobody entry on The Dare, it should go between the entries for "The Murder Shack" and "A Dance With Darkness" (which I see have been removed from the YMMV page and moved to an edit-locked page 
).
Episode links for their playthrough of The Dare are here, here, and here.
IMO the Cletus Kasady clone's entry should go below the original Cletus Kasady's on Spider-Man.
Edited by Arawn999 on Mar 31st 2024 at 6:19:57 AM
Did you guys just ignore my previous post? I gave a quote suggestion, and I was wondering if it was strong enough.
Quote looks good to me.
Nah, the quote shows Trigon being a dick, but not CM level to me
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
for the Webster Killer, Garfield Tourne, Reaper AI, Hank, Roger Squires, and I think yes to Caine.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Lt. Podofsky.
Likewise no to Trigon's quote, it's mainly just him being a dick to Raven as Agent said.
Yeah, he can be inferred to be a shitty dad and a Smug Super from it but I’m not getting CM from that quote.
Squires and sure to Caine too
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Canon Caine is far from this trope, but if the song applies sufficient Adaptational Villainy to him, then sure.
Edited by MasterN on Mar 31st 2024 at 6:30:37 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Caine
Trigon quote
Caine (TBH, I really think the character works better as he is because then he'd just be another AM)
Harbinger of Cringe
Honestly yeah, I agree with that
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Squires and Caine
A Child from the Stars
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Garfield and Hank
"No running in the halls!"