Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
It can count if a pattern is strongly implied, my main issue is the HS. Alot of monsters have kill counts in the thousands and it has HITLER in it.
Not the Eye
I think we are fine taking only original show’s standard and Hitler did rule whole country this guy seems to be one off bandit.
Gonna abstain until we get more information about how much patern there is to his kills thought.
Edit: Okay, refreshing on show keepers we already have, gonna go with ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
since standard is really high and his bodycount sounds to vague.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Not exactly. It used to be that case but now we go for things how much weight it is placed on crimes (assuming they are off screen), how much focus they get in character’s overal story, how much description they are given and like.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Mar 15th 2024 at 2:58:30 AM
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Charles
caswell. Ill give him the benefit of the doubt over guys like lead countries and such. But vassilof is just an assasin but kills 800 people with a saw like death course.
Charles
Pong Krell. r/fuckpongkrell
Caswell
Edited by Fireball246 on Mar 15th 2024 at 3:46:39 AM
pronounced 'Scraggle'
Yes to Charles Weatherly and whatif?Pong Krell.
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
A interesting, yet a villain I am not really sure if he could fit.
What's the Work?
Criminal Case Is an facebook puzzle game in ‘object finding’ style about the player going across world and cities to solve crimes.
Who is He / What did he do?
Solomon Grimmes is a pilgrim who is the true founder of the Crimson Order. A pilgrim from an unknown part of the world, Grimmmes would settle himself in Grimsborough, which would be owned by a tribe called 'Alokis'. After being rescued by the tribe from a near-death situation, Solomon would pledge love to Inaya and would later marry her.
In reality, Solomon only married her after discovering that Alokis had access to a gold mine that has enough gold to make him rich. At a festival which was created to celebrate his marriage with Inaya, Solomon brutally murdered Inaya and as the Alokis Intervened, brought his minions to massacre the tribe and grab the gold in order to advance his position and the power of his own cult.
Becoming the most powerful men in the entire settlement, Solomon would control Grimsborough with an iron fist, murdering anyone who attempts to expose his crimes, Children being included in his massacre for power.
Even centuries after his death, his cult would seize control of the city from the shadows and silence as many people for power. Until the 21st century where the Player would put an end to the order once and for all.
Freudian Excuses / Mitigating Factors?
Absolutely not, all he cares about is his power in the order, nothing proves his relationship with his minions are good.
Heinous Standards
Pretty Sure He counts, while Criminal case has a notoriously high standards where warmongers and city destroyers does not make the standards, his entire genocide of a tribe and creating an entire city which orchestrated hundreds to thousands murdered for his cult's well-being, being one of the few child murderers in the game, and turning the city into a city of crime for centuries after his demise makes him count. Furthermore he has low resources other than his cult while most Criminal Case Monsters have access to 21st century technology.
Final Verdict?
Yes.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, maybe...but the standard IS very high.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
If there's enough evidence or a pattern showing this all happened, sure. for Solomon Grimmes.
Also for Charles Weatherly and Pong Krell.
for Joe Caswell.
Dagded Dujardin
Gharnef, Charles, Weatherly and Pong Krell
Edited by VengefulBale on Mar 15th 2024 at 5:24:41 AM
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
The Work
The Lord of the Rings is a series of books written by the famous J.R.R. Tolkien and was the Trope Codifier for many well-known fantasy story tropes. In the story, the Dark Lord Sauron wants to conquer Middle-Earth with his huge army. An alliance of men, dwarves, elves and halflings tries to stop him. They can't defeat his army, but the good guys have a powerful magical ring that is linked to Sauron and destroying it will kill him. The bad news: The only way to destroy the ring is throwing it into a volcano right next to Sauron's fortress. So so small Fellowship takes on the quest to travel to Sauron's realm, destroy the ring and save Middle-Earth.The Lord of the Rings Online is an Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game that takes place in Middle-Earth during the story from the books with the player characters traveling all over Middle-Earth to fight against Sauron's minions, aid the free people and even participates in some key events from the books. Just like in the books Sauron is eventually defeated at which point the developers came up with their own villains and stories to keep the game running and give players new things to do.
The Candidate
Ferndûr the Virulent, the Gaunt-lord of Pestilence. Resembling whittered corpses, Gaunts were created thousands of years ago by the first Dark Lord Morgoth when he bound evil spirits to the bodies of enslaved men. Among the Gaunt, five were chosen to become Gaunt-Lords, wiedling greater powers than their less brethern. After Morgoth's defeat the Gaunt went into hidding and only recently reemerged to serve Sauron.His Deeds
- His first notable deed was aiding the kingdom of Rhudaur in it's war against the neighboring realms. He had his own temple in the Trollshaws where he was worshipped by the people of Rhudaur while he created a deadly plague called the Red Cloud. To late did they realize that they couldn't control the Red Cloud and instead of their enemies the people of the temple fell victime to it. Ferndûr wasn't really saddened by the death of his servants and worshipers. On the contrary, he laughed when the disease claimed their lives.
- In the present time he has returned to the Trollshaws. The player character is investigating the increased aggression of the local wildlife and soon discovers that the Gaunt-Lord is behind this. The elf Glorfindel and the player character eventually fight him and force him to flee. Albeit no before he killed eight eleven scouts with his disease. Much later in the game, he'sfought in Angmar where he has taken control of a burial ground to raise the corpses as undead. This time he's slain and remained death for the next two expansions.
- Eventually four of the five Gaunt-Lords were slain by the player characters. But then their leader of the group makes his first appearance and resurrects the other four. With new orders Ferndûr travels to the Trollshaws again. Accompanied by human mercenaries he returns to the old temple where he once created the Red Cloud. And surprise, surprise, working for a guy that looks like a walking corpse wasn't a great idea. Because the mercenaries who entered the templefeel victim to his plague and the ones who guarding the outskirts have become sick as well.
- Deep inside the temple the player(s) confront Ferndûr for the last time. Surrounded by the corpses of his mercenaries he reveals that he plans to a relase a plague (presumably the Red Cloud) that will sweep through the North and claim many victims who he then will raise as part of an Undead army. Promising the player character(s) that they will be among the first members of his army he attacks together with the now undead mercenaries. But good triumphs and Ferndûr is slain again. Presumably for good this time.
Mitigating Factors/Freudian Excuses
- While Ferndûr is a remorseless villain who enjoys killing people with plagues, we have to address how the Gaunts were created. Namely the part about them being humans corrupted by evil spirits. Now in the game Undead are created by summoning spirits that control the bodies. There are multiple example in the game where these spirits pretend to be they deceased, but in reality are just ghostly parasites puppeteering the bodies of the death. The Gaunt had living hosts instead but I'm still inclined to believe that these creatures are their own beings and not victims of Morgoth twisted into evil. Also in a recent Add-On a Gaunt-Lords did return: One of his followers summon his spirit and had him poses an orc women that, so far, is able to keep him under control. This also points towards Ferndûr and the others being spirits who just took over the bodies of their victims.
- As for his Moral Agency: The player comes across the leader of the Gaunt-Lords during his first attempt to resurrect Ferndûr. He/she manages to interrupt the ritual at which point the leader flees and promises vengeance for his slain brethren. So they are at least able to care for each other. And no, Ferndûr never shows that he cares about the other Gaunt Lord.
Heinous Standard
- With the exception of their leader, he's the worst among the Gaunt-Lords. One did raze a whole village but that's not uncommon among bad guys in this game. Another one has created a deadly poison he wants to use on the Hobbit's of the Shire but Ferndûr's plague is arguably worse than a mere poison. A third one was supposed to raise an Undead army to conquer the North but has become sightly unhinged after his previous death and now has the Undead endlessly fight against each other. Their leader is worse enough, being the one who revived all of them and gave them their new tasks that would've lead to lots of causalities but, as mentioned above, he actually seems to care about the other Gaunt-Lord.
- Ferndûr's goal was to unleash a plague that would devastated the North. “The North” refers to the areas of the base game which includes Breeland (largest human population in the region), the Trollshaws (with the Elven settlemen of Rivendell), the Shire (home of the Hobbits) and Ered Luin (which has a large dwarven population) among other places. So that would've been an impressive body count if his plan hadn't been foiled.
- His first plague, which killed the people in the temple, happend off-screen. It's only mentioned in a dialogue with Elrond. And while the player does meet the spirits of the King's of Rhudaur in the temple they don't really talk about how the plague whipped out the temple's population.
- Now the biggest issue with Ferndûr is that there's another villains who also plans to create a deadly plague: Lhaereth the Stained. Like him she's thousands of years old and she was responsible for the Great Plague that spread through Middle-Earth and killed an untold numbers ofp eople. The reason why the North is so sparsely populated compared to other regions like Gondor? Because the Great Plague depopulated it. And even other places like Gondor or Rhûn in the East were hit pretty hard. And Lhaereth is working on a new, incurable Great Plague. While Lhaereth has redeeming qualities she's still in the same niche as Ferndûr and may out-heinous him.
My Verdict
Leaving it up to you.
to Leveque, Gharnef, Charles Weatherly, Pong Krell, Solomon Grimmes and Ferndur the Virulent.
Yes to Pong Krell and Solomon.
As for Ferndur, I've always had a lot of contention when it comes to agency in Tolkien's works. I'm still not personally convinced orcs have agency even though we've put several up. Evil spirits like Ferndur are even more dubious in that regard to me. We don't have any of the Ring Wraiths up in works where they are evil spirits, and Mordirith, one of the main villains, unambiguously doesn't have moral agency as an evil spirit considering who he was in life.
Since the Gaunt Lords' exact origins are unknown other than being "created from evil spirits in the 1st Age", I'm personally going with a for right now for moral agency concerns. We have blatant examples of good people in life being turned into evil undead within the MMO itself, not to mention the Ring Wraiths, so I can't be comfortable voting yes unless the Guants were explicitly depicted as evil in life that chose their current state willingly.
A Child from the Stars
for Charles and Pong Krell.
Showtime!
A Child from the Stars
Looks I completely forgot to post-
- What If Order 66 Failed (link): Emperor Palpatine, after murdering Mace Windu alongside his new apprentice, orders the Clonetroopers to execute Order 66 in an attempt to finally crush the Jedi Order, having Darth Vader lead his troops into the Jedi Temple and kill as many Jedi as possible, before sending him off to go handle the Separatist leaders. After learning his plan to destroy the Jedi Order had failed and was cornered by Yoda and several other surviving Jedi, Palpatine would taunt Yoda about how it was foolish to come to stop him, brutally killing both Aayla Secura and Cin Drallig before attacking both Yoda and Ki-Adi-Mundi in a final attempt to save his own skin.
I see on the Discussion Dates page that Final Fantasy VII Rebirth is eligible now, but someone has reserved it?
I believe Polar Phantom reserved it but still needs some time to finish it before he can start the discussion.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Here’s the next half of Escape the Night. This time from season 2
Who is The Gingerbread Lady? What Does She Do?
- A plump, seemingly kind woman who is one of the lieutenants to The Sorceress, The Gingerbread Lady is revealed to be a demented woman, who’s famous “meat pies” are revealed to be made of children she had kidnapped and cooked. The Gingebread Woman placed in two children into her oven, planning on cooking them alive as Joey and the players try and release them .
- When they managed to succeed in releasing the two kids, and meet The Gingerbread Woman’s surrogate son, a jittery and nervous man named Sampson, The Woman comes back, acting all happy and sweet up until he sees they have her “famous” meat pie recipe. At that moment, the woman lashes out at her surrogate son, cutting his fingers off in front of everyone while sneering at him for being ungrateful.
- Upset that they released two of her victims, she forces the contestants to vote on two people to compete in a challenge (This time being Tyler and Liza) and the loser would be cooked alive into her pies, and if they fail the challenge, she’ll simply kill them both. However, with the help of Sampson, Liza and Tyler manage to lure the Gingerbread Woman into her own oven and lock her in, cooking her alive.
Mitigating Factors?
Is the proper act of Sugary Malice towards anyone which can come down whenever she’s upset and her “love” for her adopted son is clearly just abusive with heavy implication she kidnapped him at a young age.
Heinous Standard?
She’s a pretty much a lowly human being without any real resources compared to the supernatural creators or leaders of groups in the story, and is a cannibal who puts children into her famous meat pies and was willing to cook two kids alive, as well as chopping the fingers off her surrogate son, before trying to force one of the contestants into becoming one of her pies. Pretty nasty child crimes there
Verdict?
Yes
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Yes to Gharnef, Levenque, Grimmes, Weatherly and Pong Krell.
No to Caswell.
Abstain on Gaunt.
I just listened to another superhero podcast, Flash: Escape from the Midnight Circus, was created back in July 2023 to help promote the Flash movie (guess it didn't work for that, but it is a fun story on its own). Barry Allen gets into a fight with Iris West over the fact he ditched an award ceremony where she is going to win a major award for excellence in journalism to stop Captain Cold from robbing a bank. Iris is going to leave Barry over this, so he decides to go back in time to prevent himself from missing the ceremony. That is a big mistake.
This of course traps Barry in an alternate timeline, where Murmur, a Serial Killer who cut out his own tongue in the Prime timeline, is elected President and turns the US into a dictatorship. To punish his enemies, he has anyone deemed a criminal (everyone from supervillains to people who commit minor crimes to people who criticize him) are sent to the Midnight Circus, a series of Deadly Game contests where 50 people go in and one person leaves alive. Every game needs a host, you will never guess who it is....because this is a weird choice for this type of character:
Who is Cat Grant? What has she done?
Yes, it's Cat Grant, a reporter and Superman supporting character in the regular DCU, but in the Midnight Circus verse, she is the vain and cruel host of the Midnight Circus. She has a co-host, Captain Boomerang, who was a former Midnight Circus champion who became a co-host after he won. She subjects the Midnight Circus participants to these games, spinning the ''Wheel of Fate'' to decide who has to has to fight who and what type of games they have to take part in. For example the wheel pits Heatwave, against a woman who sold Real Estate without a licence, with Grant and Boomerang making snarky comments while Heatwave burns this poor woman to death.
Barry Allen does not have his powers in this timeline and is a prisoner of the Midnight Circus, so he will have to use his wits to survive. But every time someone loses, Cat Grant will subject them to a ''wacky'' punishment. For example, Barry defeats the Top in a fight, so the Top will be sent off to be killed by wild horses, essentially drawn and quartered. Barry defeats Double Down in a card game, he is fed to Komodo dragons. Cicada is torn apart by wild chimps after he fails to answer one of the Thinker's riddles. Piped Piper has a hippo dropped on him after he loses a music contest to Captain Cold.
Cat Grant also forces the participants to sleep with the sponsors, whether they like it or it. Grant demands Barry sleep with Debbie Sionis, CEO of Janus Cosmetics, a major sponsor of the Midnight Games or she will make the Thinker give Barry impossible questions and die on the third round. Barry goes through with it, but luckily Debbie falls asleep drunk after taking all her clothes off, so nothing happens, but that's due to luck, it's still a pretty vile move from Cat Grant.
The final game is a maze created by the Mirror Master, the finalists are Barry, Iris and Captain Cold, the winner gets to live and gets a vacation to Los Vegas, the losers, die. Barry and Iris get through the maze and defeat Captain Cold. Barry lets Iris finish the maze and gain her freedom. After Barry leaves the maze, Cat Grant plans to have him killed by an electric chair and sell versions of the electric chair online. However, Iris gave Barry the philosopher's stone, a weapon she took from Dr. Alchemy after killing him. Barry is able to use the power of the electric chair and the philosopher's stone to regain his powers and escape from this nightmarish timeline.
Is she heinous by the standards of the work?
So in theory she is just a game show host. Murmur is the one in charge, but Grant is given a lot of leeway on how she runs these games. She can rig the games to please her sponsors and force contests to sleep with the sponsors to serve her business ends. I think she is heinous enough. She seems to have more power over the show than Captain Boomerang.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
Nah, she is outwardly friendly, she calls the legal department and wishes the legal department rep and his kids well, but that seems like an act. She admits to Barry that she actually hates kids (she doesn't have a son in this universe) and is hosting this show to have her kitchen remodelled. She claims she is part of a system and if she wasn't hosting the show, someone else would, but she clearly likes the income from this show and rigs the show to get her more money. She is more than just a cog in a machine.
Also, some of these wacky punishments may seem funny like Grant dropping a hippo on the Piped Piper, I think she is making the punishments ridiculous for ratings, she has a woman burned to death, she has the Top drawn and quartered and was going to kill Barry with an electric chair. Her forcing Barry to sleep with a sponsor gives some menace to her more ridiculous moments.
Final Verdict?
A surprising yes to Cat Grant.
I could propose President Murmur, but the fact that he can't speak makes him kinda hard to propose, he only appears twice in the podcast, once to give a Presidential address and the other time to read Barry his last rites, but he can only mumble, it almost feels like a gag. His regime is felt in the story, but I am not sure about the man himself having enough characterization and his mumbling kinda seems like a joke.
Edited by Overlord on Mar 15th 2024 at 8:28:20 AM
Cat Grant and also does think that the poltical extremist in this video could count?
@LoreDeluxe: Well since you mentioned it, the game makes it pretty clear that orcs - at least in Lords of the Ring Online - have moral agency. The most recent Add-On has a whole village of Orcs who just want to life in a peace. Recently a group of Orc soldiers arrived, one of whom admits having trouble adjusting to this new peaceful live where he doesn't have to watch his back constantly but tries to let got of this paranoid mindset. Let's just say it was a controversial choice but it makes it clear that the orcs in the game aren't Always Chaotic Evil.
And speaking of Mordirith, there's was actually a Gaunt who was an evil person in life. Agath-kali, the Gaunt-woman was the chief torture of the Ring Wraiths and the responsible for the creation of Mordirith via torture. As reward for her services she was turned into a Gaunt. The player can also find a journal written by her that makes it clear that she really, really, really likes torture. Of course, this kind of contradicts an earlier statement about Gaunt being evil spirits but maybe it was because Agath-kali was turned into a Gaunt a different way?
Edited by NTG on Mar 15th 2024 at 10:54:33 AM
Yes to Grant.
Since evil spirits thematically tend to be decent people turned into undead slaves, Mordirith being the prime example from the MMO, I'm still being cautious with Ferndur. The Gaunt Lords I'm especially weary of just because of how much more corruptive fuckery Morgoth was capable of compared to Sauron.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Cat.
I guess a weak yes to the witch for her niche of child killing.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cat Grant
Gingerbread Lady
Sorry, I didn't realize they had to be onscreen.