Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gharnef and Leveque (worst movie ever, BTW)
pronounced 'Scraggle'
Yea to Levenque. Can we save the off-topic jibes about the movie's quality for a relevant thread?
Yes to Gharnef, too.
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to those two.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Gharnef, Leveque
for Gharnef.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah. Good point. Sorry, my mistake.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to Levenque.
I wanna elaborate more on Carnival Master since I feel like his heinousness wasn’t as elaborated by me. Which I do apologize for not being as specifically
I think while the collector has enough of her own niche, I think The Carnival Master is the worst in the series by a pretty large margin. He’s basically preyed on down on their luck individual and twisted them into becoming horrific monsters (Not only turning a deformed and discriminated man into a deformed monster, and an abused husband into a psychotic ringleader; He made his own daughter kill her boyfriend to earn his respect, which landed her in a straight jacket and losing her mind before he proceeded to corrupt her into becoming a psychotic sexual deviant), and also preying on a elderly toy maker to take a cursed puppet that brutally stabs him to death.
And I also wanna touch on smth with resources, unlike the Sorceress who is clearly gained their powers through The Cursed God and has his abilities, The Carnival Master is only in league with the Cursed God and doesn’t inherit his powers from what we see, with Nicholas’ abilities only being the ability to transform people through deals, nothing like The Sorceress’ abilities and The Collector’s controlling of time traveling and such (as well as the fact he doesn’t have access to the entire museum that The Collector has) . And his actions of trying to have all the souls in Evermore consume is portrayed as one of the worst and most dangerous action in the series, even more so Than a the Sorceress, and his actions overall are hit with a hefty Knight of Cerebus and swayed the story into Darker and Edgier for extra points of oomph.
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Mar 15th 2024 at 2:15:20 PM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Gharnef.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Gharnef
Alright here’s one who was originally proposed by a ban evader
What’s the work?
Lost Tapes is a Found Footage Mockumentary series by Animal Planet inspired by paranormal investigating stories
This candidate comes from the episode poltergeist (season 3 episode 4). During the episode the Golden Family move into a new house in Lakeview Colorado
Who is he and what has he done?
Charles Weatherly, the previous owner of their house, in life brutally murdered his own wife and children before killing himself before he returned to haunt his home
After the Golden Family moved in, Weatherly began tormenting them taking a special interest in their son, Troy, who they began to suspect of having telekinesis. Weatherly pushed a bookshelf onto Troy’s older sister Megan, nearly killing her
This would lead the family to call three paranormal investigators Dr. Jeremy Reinhold, Kristy Johns, and Bill "Shots" Cooper, to investigate the incident
They find evidence of a poltergeist haunting the family and trying to kill Troy leading them to decide to move the family out of the house, eventually finding a newspaper article about Weatherly’s murder of his family
They then make the mistake of trying to exorcise him, calling out his name, he possesses Kristy, forcing her to scream Leave, before killing her by repeatedly slamming her against the wall.
He then murders Bill and props up his body to scare Jeremy into leaving before appearing to him with a Slasher Smile and killing him
The investigators deaths are ruled cardiac arrest and the Golden’s sell the house
The realtor tells them that they don’t have to disclose the deaths, so Charles is free to murder more in the future
Redeeming qualities?
Laughable
Heinousness?
I’d say he passes, most monsters on the show aren’t sapient, and he has murdering his own family, the relatively unique niche of harming children, and brutal murders/psychological torture.
Final verdict?
I think a keeper
Edited by LarryT on Mar 15th 2024 at 1:07:32 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Not the Eye
Jogo
Weatherly and Gharnef
Edit: ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Pong Krell
Edited by jlvs200s on Mar 15th 2024 at 8:58:49 PM
"Stand Proud, Sukuna, you are strong" | He/Him
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Weatherly and Gharnef
I've recently gotten into some fan theory videos on YouTube just for fun, and have some baddies to discuss from 'em.
What's the work?
What if Pong Krell survived and joined Darth Vader is a Star Wars what if-scenario vid from the channel "Pente Patrol Star Wars", that presents exactly what it says on the tin: what if everyone's favorite Jedi survived after his war crimes on Umbara and became an ally to the rising Empire.
Who is Pong Krell? What has he done?
- Much as in canon, Pong Krell is a legendary Jedi who is known for the extremely high casualty counts among his Clone Trooper units; this is because Krell sees them not as individuals, but as pawns and tools who can be freely sacrificed. He carries out the same horrible scheme as in The Clone Wars, where he tricks two units of Clone Troopers into killing each other so as to facilitate a Separatist victory on Umbara. Krell has decided the Jedi and Republic as a whole are on the decline, and so wants to throw in with the other side to win.
- Unlike canon, Krell successfully slaughters his way through all of the Clone Troopers on Umbara when they discover his treachery. He escapes and tries to ally with Dooku, but is rejected from apprenticeship—however, Dooku graces Krell with the knowledge of Sith temples so that perhaps one day, he could be a powerful partner.
- Krell travels the galaxy collecting knowledge and killing any Jedi or clones who happen upon him. When he learns that Order 66 has been carried out and the Republic restructured into an Empire, Krell ambushes and wounds Darth Vader to endear himself to the Emperor, becoming one of his Co-Dragons alongside Vader. Krell is dispatched to subjugate the Outer Rim, where he decimates entire planets and proliferates mass slavery under the Empire.
- After the destruction of the Death Star, Krell sees an opportunity for further power and convinces Vader to team up and destroy the Emperor. They firebomb Coruscant's capital and kill the Emperor, too scared to face him in head-on combat, and they later track him down to Exegol and finish off his spirit when it tries to inhabit a clone body.
- Krell twists public perception in his favor and takes up the mantle of Emperor while Vader serves as a behind-the-scenes partner, as he has no taste for daily politics like Krell. Krell plays nice and reverts a lot of Palpatine's dictates so as to lull the Rebellion into a false sense of security, at which point he tracks the Rebellion down to its home base and personally leads the ground assault where he gleefully slaughters all of the Rebel leaders like Mon Mothma and Luke. He further deploys a shield over the planet so that he can ensure each and every Rebel can be hunted down—"he wanted no survivors."
- With all opposition to their rule quashed, Krell and Vader ruled over a new Empire for years to come, with even their eventual natural deaths not ending the dictatorship they had instituted.
Mitigating features?
None, there are stray mentions of "respect" he has for people like Dooku or Kenobi, but the narrative notes that it's all about power with Krell and he's happy to take advantage of their deaths for his benefit. He's the scheming, manipulative, sadistic Co-Dragon to Vader's stoic, and though he settles on a cautious truce with Vader—in which Vader outlaws slavery in the galaxy as part of his role in the Empire—it is solely to maintain his status as Emperor, as Krell otherwise has no problem with mass enslaving planets.
Heinousness?
Has his canon crimes as well as leading a campaign of slavery and planetary devastations on the Outer Rim; firebombing Coruscant's capital just to kill Palpatine; and leading the massacre of all Rebel Alliance personnel. He's the worst in the story by far.
Final Verdict?
Keep
Edited by Ravok on Mar 15th 2024 at 12:54:51 PM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Not the Eye
Pong Krell
And I would like to officialy welcome you to world of Star Wars what if’s Ravok!
Edited by EmperorGeode on Mar 15th 2024 at 12:56:18 PM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Pong Krell
I have to point this out, in Weatherly’s original proposal, they’re also discussing Gharnef. What are the odds? ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Charles and Pong.
Edited by ACW on Mar 15th 2024 at 4:02:46 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Pong Krell.
That reminds me that I have my own Star Wars What If keeper coming.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
for Charles Weatherley and Pong Krell.
...Phenomenal
for Gharnef, Weatherly, and Krell.
Pong Krell. Surprising that Vader didn't choke him to death for any failures.
What is the work?
The Twilight Zone, Season 1, Episode 26, "Execution".
Who is Joe Caswell and what has he done?
Joe Caswell is a notorious outlaw from the wild west. Just as he is about to be hanged for murder, he is transported 80 years into the future by a scientist. Unable to cope with the complexity of the modern world, he kills the scientist and later dies himself at the hands of another criminal.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
The only hint we have of a backstory for Caswell is when he tells the scientist that concepts like right, wrong and justice do not mean much when "another man's bread and jacket stand between you and staying alive". He also talks about being beaten by a deputy sheriff. But being poor and having to endure police brutality do not excuse his crimes.
Are they bad enough?
Rod Serling's narration makes it clear that Caswell is man without a conscience or any feeling for his fellow man. He also has one of the highest body counts on the Twilight Zone. He says that he killed a "whole territory" full of people and that he stopped counting after 20. The crime that condemned him to death involved shooting a man who Caswell said had "too much mouth and not enough brains". According to the man's father, Caswell shot him in the back and he shows no remorse for it, even saying he would gladly do so again. He also kills the scientist who brought him to the future simply because he "hates his kind", never mind that the scientist had unwittingly saved him from certain death.
Final verdict?
Caswell is a Complete Monster due to his high body count and utter lack of remorse.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
How much is onscreen?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Reading this https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Monster/TheTwilightZone
I am not sure if he's bad enough
pronounced 'Scraggle'
I don't recall Caswell's crimes being anywhere near onscreen enough to qualify for this.
Edited by Starkrafty on Mar 15th 2024 at 3:42:52 AM
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!