Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
The wifi here sucks
Not sure here honestly. The implant is a pretty nasty niche but the rest of his stuff is very standard for Star Trek.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, the implants is why I am proposing him.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Pluto and Rago, abstaining on Baran until more information is given. I find it funny how, save for Rago, every Metal Fight Beyblade CM was almost an MB.
Pluto, Rago
With the recent tweaks to the baseline rule, thinking of trying out a re-eval on a guy downvoted in the past that might be able to make it now.
From the movie Australia, EP is for the Big Bad Neil Fletcher.
What is the work?
Australia is a movie about Australians, set in Australia.
More specifically it takes places in the 1940s in the outback of the Northern Territory. It covers important historical events including the Stolen Generations (where Indigenous kids were taken from their families to be raised as white children).
The film revolves around an unlikely trio: Nullah (an young half-Indigenous boy about to come of age), Lady Sarah Ashley (played by Nicole Kidman, a British lady and widow of a ranch's owner), and the Drover (played by Hugh Jackman, an independent drover who joins forces with the heroes).
Together, the trio and their allies attempt to save their cattle ranch Faraway Downs, from being taken over by the local tycoon, King Carney. Throughout the film their main opposition is:
Who is Neil Fletcher and what has he done?
Neil Fletcher (played by David Wenham) is initially the corrupt station hand of Faraway Downs, working under Lady Sarah's husband. However he murders Sarah's husband with a spear and frames one of the Indigenous elders, King George, for the crime. Fletcher's reasoning for murdering his former boss, so that he could take charge of the ranch and sell it to King Carney. He is also revealed to be Nullah's father, who was born from an affair he had with one of the local Indigenous women.
When Lady Sarah first arrives, Fletcher attempts to charm his new boss believing her to be ignorant and easily manipulated. However his ruse is exposed by Nullah, leading to Fletcher pursuing and hitting the young boy, along with Nullah's mother who tries to defend him. Lady Sarah is no longer able to stand Fletcher's abusive behavior, slaps him and fires him on the spot. Before Fletcher leaves he warns her that every cattlehand would leave with him. He also spitefully releases all of the cattle.
Fletcher then allies with King Carney, where they become Faraway Downs' main rival in the cattle industry. The two ranches are given a business deal from the Allied forces, where whoever can transport their cattle to be shipped off first would receive payment. The main trio and a few of their allies, are forced to substitute the cattlehands to drive the 1500 cattle to Darwin.
During their trip, they get sabotaged by Fletcher who sets fire to the bush to scare off the cattle and cause them to stampede, where they end up trampling Flynn, one of their allies to death. The cattle stampede towards a cliff face and seem doomed to all fall, only for Nullah to step in front of their path and uses teachings past down from his elders (or maybe a bit of Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane) to halt the cattle just before they plummet off the cliff face.
Despite Fletcher's efforts, the heroes succeed in delivering their cattle before Carney's. While Carney who was believed to be the mastermind, was actually oblivious to Fletcher's true treachery. When Carney confronts Fletcher over his crimes, Fletcher murders Carney by pushing him into crocodile infested waters and the tycoon is devoured. Fletcher then marries Carney's daughter to inherit her father's fortunes.
Years later, Fletcher returns to Faraway Downs and tries to intimidate Sarah into selling her ranch, revealing that he killed her husband and that he is Nullah's father where he could jeopardize the boy's safety.
In 1942, the year of the Darwin bombings, Fletcher's cattle empire has been hit with financial ruin. Blaming the heroes, especially his bastard son, Fletcher spitefully tries to shoot the boy dead. Only for King George, the man he framed for the murder of Sarah's husband, to spear him in the back.
Heinous Standard
The main reason he got downvoted last time was because his bodycount was a bit low. But I think he deserves a closer look at his crimes.
Fletcher is directly/indirectly responsible for three murders (Sarah's husband, Flynn, and King Carney). One of which is letting a man get devoured by crocodiles, which is pretty damn cruel.
He also has the attempted murder of Nullah, pushing his potential human killcount to 4. Not only is he trying to kill a child, but his own son.
There's also him causing the stampeding of 1500 cattle, where he tries to send them charging off a cliff. He does so, knowing he'll endanger anyone in the stampede's path, where they end up trampling Flynn to death. Plus while the cattle aren't sentient, that's still the lives of 1500 livestock on his hands.
He is also physically beats and abuses several Indigenous locals (all shown to be women), alongside Nullah.
All in all, the film goes out of the way to paint him as being the nastiest in the setting.
Mitigating Factors?
Nah. No Freudian Excuse so to speak. He also physically abuses his son and his son's mother, while also later trying to murder that same son. He married Carney's daughter solely for money with no indication he ever loved her.
Final verdict?
So what do you guys think? Can this guy make the cut now?
Edited by Snowy66 on Feb 5th 2024 at 3:13:34 AM
The baseline rule has just been revised for kids media (and even then I somewhat disagree with it). Villains in more mature works still need to push the envelope.
What is the work?
Metal Slader Glory is a NES/Famicon game released in 1991 by HAL Laboratory and written and directed by Yoshimiru Hoshi that is considered the largest and most impressive on the system and was so ambitious that it took 4 years to make and near bankrupted Hal.
Nintendo told Hal that they would rescue it if they made the late Satoru Iwata the president of Hal which he later did before becoming the president of Nintendo.
The game follows Tadashi, and girlfriend Elina finding a glorious metal slader named Glory, and when turning it on reads a message telling him that the earth is in danger, and later with his sister Azusa goes on to find out the story of the Glory.
Who is Sayoko and what does she do?
Sayoko is the seemingly polite and loyal secretary to Silkine who is not what she seems.
An evil alien under a human disguise among a race of aliens who attacked space colonies 8 years ago she along with others took places of power in society including the government hiding info about the war by killing those who knew and ridding of a stench that could reveal their identity.
In their second meeting she either near the secret base or her office directs Tadashi and Elina to colony 3 where Azusa has been kidnapped as a distraction to get Tadashi, and Elina killed so she can get rid of the one person who can use the Glory and launch an attack on colony 35 just to destroy the base in it.
On the T-stork when the other sus that there is a alien among them they argue, with Sayoko denying she is one until Azusa with the smell of her mother's perfume causes Sayoko to unveil her self and declare that it is time to destroy the pitiful earth while laughing as she disappears.
Redeeming qualities? Is she bad enough?
Her politeness and loyalty is a sham with her only working with Silkine to find out and hide info about the Glory and forces against the aliens, and beyond working with the aliens there is no relationship shown. While all of the aliens are shown to be bad there is nothing sight up saying they don't have a choice in being evil.
While there is war 8 years in the past on multiple colonies told there is no said leader of the aliens or even a commander planning the attacks with the closest to any high rank member being Kilf or aliens in the government who killed to hide info about the war for 8 years but none of them go as far as to bomb a entire colony just to screw a base that has vital info.
And knowingly sets up the 17 Tadashi and his 17 girlfriend Elina to be killed by being the one to send them to colony 3 with aliens in wait with his sister as bait to prevent Tadashi from using the Glory.
Verdict?
You decide
Edited by umaprasis on Feb 5th 2024 at 2:35:47 AM
Lord of Space
It wasn't really revised, but clarified.
Regardless, there was some stuff for him that I forgot to mention last time. Causing the 1500 cattle stampede that trampled a guy to death wasn't in the last EP.
Edited by Snowy66 on Feb 5th 2024 at 3:15:15 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Come on people, please add your stuff to the pending 
- Pluto and Rago: So they're the leaders of the group that wants to destroy the world? Sure to them. Doji still a keeper?
- Gorgon: So we know for sure she's the leader? Even beyond that, I still have heinousness concerns. It's over an hour, while Erasmus's And I Must Scream lasts longer. And beyond THAT, even if she plans the fate for all humanity, Nightmare Man plans to do the same, and HIS And I Must Scream seems MUCH worse. I'm leaning no, but willing to be convinced.
- Baran: Leaning no. This seems like Van Zant, where he has few resources, but the heinous standard for the work is too high.
- Fletcher: Leaning yes. Seems like he's JUST over the baseline.
- Sayoko: Seems like she acts as The Heavy, so weak yes.
As the guy who proposed Doji, I do think he still keeps. Even if not a leader, he's an important part of their group, assembled the Nemesis Bladers, indirectly-yet-intentionally caused Ryuga's death and had his own independent rapsheet in Metal Fusion that helps him stand out.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, cool. The other two can still count IMO, unless EVERY villain tries to destroy the world.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Most villains save for the big bads are generally rather bog-standard, in my memory. Only Ryuga (post Fusion) comes close to standing out.
Edited by Iceaura39 on Feb 5th 2024 at 12:07:42 PM
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Showtime!
To Sayoko
Abstain on Fletcher. We didn't remove baseline heinousness, we just stopped focussing on genre heinousness as I don't think he breaches baseline
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
How unique is Sayoko among the aliens in terms of badness? If there is no leader and what she does isn’t particularly unique among them, then she isn’t exceptional enough; we just cut Tsumugi for not doing anything to potentially distinguish herself from her fellow masterminds.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Goku Black
I think I'll ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Baran. The chips stuff is bad. But jev beats in terms of pure torture and theirs also Kivas whose also a super low resource villain who endagers a planet.
Sayoko attacks a colony with the intent attacking the base of operations that is humanities last hope in a government that is mixed with aliens which also hosed a disk which unlocks Glory's full power which could have been destroyed if not given to Tadashi before the attack as well as having info that had to be deleted to prevent the aliens from getting it.
And the attack 8 years ago mainly targeted space colonies not the entire Earth which she is directly trying to ruin attempts to protect, and while aliens in the government did kill people over 8 years to hide the war they have no a far more vague body count of just killing people who know about the war while Sayoko attacks an entire space colony full of people who don't even know about the war or the plan to attack Earth.
Edited by umaprasis on Feb 5th 2024 at 7:59:04 AM
Asking early, but do I need to do separate writeups for Pluto and Rago, or can I cover both of them in one? I didn't do separate EPs for them because the two of them never really operate separately from one another.
Edited by Maxide on Feb 5th 2024 at 8:06:26 AM
Not the Eye
Gorgon, Sayoko and lean weak one to Neil
Baran.
@ Overlord, with Barak’s employe, do we know what their plans with the artifacts are or at least what they do?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
How common is And I Must Scream for Sarah Jane? If it's rare, Gorgon MIGHT be able to pass even with Nightmare Man.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Fair enough, I thought Baran might a long shot.
Yes to Sayoko
The employer is a Vulcan isolationist who wants to violently purge Vulcan of all alien elements.
She pretends to be a Romulan Merc aboard the Merc ship and wants to use the artifact to recreate an ancient Vulcan doomsday weapon that would allow her to kill people telepathically.
The problem is this doomsday weapon kinda sucks, it has a built in story weakness where it can't harm people if they purge their mind of violent thoughts, there is also some production problems with it, where it can only target one person at a time and takes several seconds to use.
I don't mind the built in weakness of the weapon being defeated by peace, but it should have been able to kill thousands or millions of people at once.
The Vulcan isolationist has some scary plans, but they are undone by her doomsday weapon being a dud, she only manages to kill some of the Mercs.
Edited by Overlord on Feb 5th 2024 at 9:29:56 AM
Caesar
Yes to Napier, Mr. Fox, Gorgon and yeah, I'm good with Fletcher, think he's just over the line for a film like that.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Classy, Refined, Unstable
@ACW, And I Must Scream is literally only committed by the listed C Ms more or less. The Gorgons fine with its niche Puppeteer Parasite and And I Must Scream.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Not the Eye
Sounds worth a post, even her plan turns out to not be duable because weapon ends up pathetic, she takes steps toward that plan she believed would make it reality.
Come to think of it, does Baran know about the danger weapon suposedly poses and for what it could be used for?
Edited by EmperorGeode on Feb 5th 2024 at 9:40:27 AM
Yes to Napier, Mr. Fox, Pluto, Rago and the Gorgon.
Here is the Star Trek bad guy I was talking about:
Who is Arctus Baran? What has he done?
Arctus Baran (played by the late, great Richard Lynch, actor in B-movies and noted here for playing a lot CM roles) is a villain from the two-part Next Gen episodes ''The Gambit'', who is the captain of a band of mercs. The thing about Baran is he ensures the loyalty of his crew by putting implants in them, which cause pain or death among his crew if they displease him and he is not afraid to use it, it used to be used by the previous merc captain, until Baran killed him and took his place, maintaining his crew as defacto slaves. Baran is hired by a mysterious party to steal several Vulcan artifacts, test them for an energy signature, and deliver the artifacts to the employer.
Picard decides to investigate these mercs after he visits an archeological site that had been raided. Picard tracks them to a bar and asks them too many questions and they seemingly kill him with a disruptor, but in reality, they transport him to their ship. Picard convinces Baran and his crew that he is a smuggler named Galen and he uses his skill to increase the identification process for the artifacts by a factor of 10. Baran keeps Galen around for his skills but quickly develops a dislike for Galen.
The Enterprise finds the Merc ship raiding another site of ruins and Riker is kidnapped by the Mercs on the surface of the planet with the ruins. Baran puts an implant in Riker and forces him to be part of his crew. Picard as Galen states Riker is an insubordinate officer and cannot be trusted, but that makes Baran think Riker would be a useful asset to his crew, having someone with 15 years experience as a Star Fleet officer as an underling. Picard creates a malfunction on the ship for Riker to fix to gain Baran's trust.
Baran is taking the ship to Calder II, which has more Vulcan ruins and a small Federation outpost, with Baran wanting to destroy the outpost and take the artifacts from the ruins. Picard and Riker can get the artifacts up before Baran destroys the outpost, but when the outpost activates its shields, Baran tries to destroy it again, however, the Enterprise shows up to save the outpost. Riker and Picard are able to subtly communicate the Merc ship's next destination to the Enterprise and have the Enterprise let the Merc ship escape.
The Enterprise goes to those coordinates and intercepts a Klingon merc who has the final artifact. Baran has Riker, Galen, and 3 other mercs board the Enterprise to steal the artifact, Riker reveals he was ordered to kill Galen by Baran and Galen seems to kill Riker (however the phaser was on a stun setting) and returns to Baran's ship and punches him. Baran tries to kill Picard with the control device, but Picard changes the codes on the control device and it kills Baran instead.
Is he heinous by the standard of the story?
He may not have the body count of big villains like the Borg Queen, but Baran is a jumped thug with a ship and some mercs and not much else. His ship is no match for the Enterprise, for example, in terms of resources.
The Next Gen standard is a bit high due to the fact everything from random Romulan commanders, computer malfunctions, natural disasters, time paradoxes, etc tries to destory the Enterprise D, which has 1000 crew members including children. But perhaps Baran's cruel treatment of his crew and attempt to destory that small Federation outpost takes him over the line. Sure the mercs are criminals who go to prison by the end of the story, but they don't deserve to be under Baran's cruel thrall.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
Nah, Baran treats his crew as slaves and while he seems to like Riker, it's pretty clear he will kill Riker if it suits its purposes. He is just a greedy, jumped-up thug.
Final Verdict?
He may count if you think he is heinous enough.
I wonder if proposing Baran's mysterious employer is worth a shot, said employer has sinister plans for the artifacts but doesn't quite get the chance to execute these plans to their fullest potential.