Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, I agree with the above. We aren't really consistent.
Normally, I'd be fine with Big Bad, then one-shot villains, with others between them. The issue is this case is while Darkseid is pretty much THE Big Bad, Brainiac's not chump change.
Though that's just me. And another issue is cases where the Big Bad doesn't appear until near the end.
Though specifically, looking it up, Percival I think I'd be fine going first (or at least before Dilton; it looks like they debut in the same episode). Tokyo Ghoul I don't know.
Now Big O: Maybe Alan should go first? But beyond that, why is his writeup like 30 words shorter than a villain of the week?
Edited by ACW on Dec 25th 2022 at 12:39:14 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Different people did the entries and you asked Ravok about the lengths before, you agreed it wasn't so odd as to call for a rewrite so can we leave the entries alone unless there's an actual factual issue? Eugene isn't 200 words or anything.
The main focus is order of listing, let's stay on that.
If we go Big Bad, then by appearance TG will go: Furuta > Rize > Tsuneyoshi > Big Madam.
Re: Riverdale, No, Percival debuts one episode after Dilton's.
Edited by 43110 on Dec 25th 2022 at 12:57:06 PM
So for the holidays, I watched Better Watch Out for the first time. Anyways, I’m looking at Luke's entry could use a rewrite.
Nothing too big, it’s just his current entry reads a little awkward too me; it’s just he’s the only one whose name is mentioned, while everyone else is referred to as “his babysitter”, “her boyfriend”, “her ex”, etc.
- Luke Lerner is a sociopathic pre-teen who wants to seduce his babysitter. He stages a home invasion with his friend to impress her, and when she finds out it was faked, Luke ties her up, sexually assaults her in a game of truth or dare, and calls her boyfriend to come over. When he does, he knocks him out and ties him up, and proceeds to torment the two of them before calling her ex. He hits the boyfriend in the face with a paint can from the balcony, causing his head to explode, much to Luke's sick glee. The ex arrives, and Luke goads him into writing an apology to the babysitter before lynching him with the rope on the swing. Luke murders his friend[/accomplice for trying to free the babysitter before stabbing her in the neck and framing the ex for his crimes. Upon discovering that the babysitter is still alive, he asks his mother if they can visit her in the hospital, with the obvious intention of finishing her off.
Anyways, I thought using names wouldn’t hurt. What’d you think ?
- Better Watch Out: Luke Lerner is a sociopathic pre-teen, wanting to seduce his babysitter, Ashley. He stages a home invasion with his friend, Garrett to impress her. When she finds out it was faked, Luke ties her up, sexually assaults her in a game of truth or dare, and calls her boyfriend, Ricky, to come over. Luke knocks Ricky out and ties him up, and proceeds to torment him and Ashley before calling her ex, Jeremy. Logan hits Ricky in the face with a paint can from the balcony, causing his head to explode, to Luke's sick glee. Jeremy arrives, and Luke goads him into writing an apology to Ashley before lynching him with the rope on the swing. Luke murders Garrett for trying to free Ashely before stabbing her in the neck and framing the ex for his crimes. Upon discovering Ashley survived, Luke plans on “visiting” her at the hospital to finish her off.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
This looks good.
Another (tiny) nitpick at Sandbox.Monster Disney
- "The New Olympians" & "Seeing Isn't Believing": Proteus of the New Olympians is a shape-shifting Serial Killer who was imprisoned after murdering the previous captain of the guard. He consistently assumes the form of his victim to mock the man's son Taurus. When he tricks his way to freedom, Proteus delights in sowing the seeds of chaos all through the city, using people's emotions against them with his powers for a sick thrill and trying to destroy his city and commit genocide on his own people.
The write up only summerize "The New Olympians"... and too be fair, in "Seeing Isn't Believing", he doesn't do worse than seeking revenge on the heroes... Aaaaaand the entire season 3 is rendered non-canon by the comics so, either way, listing the second episode is redundant.
I would personally change to
- "The New Olympians": Proteus of the New Olympians is a shape-shifting Serial Killer who was imprisoned after murdering the previous captain of the guard. He consistently assumes the form of his victim to mock the man's son Taurus. When he tricks his way to freedom, Proteus delights in sowing the seeds of chaos all through the city, using people's emotions against them with his powers for a sick thrill and trying to destroy his city and commit genocide on his own people.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yes
Edited by Silverblade2 on Dec 25th 2022 at 9:52:11 PM
Not the Eye
Great rewrite Beast!
And Silverblade’s suggestion sounds valid
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Silverblade: Is the only change removing the second episode title?
- Better Watch Out: Luke Lerner is a sociopathic pre-teen who wants to seduce his babysitter, Ashley. To impress Ashley, Luke stages a home invasion with his friend Garrett. When Ashley finds out it was faked, Luke ties her up, sexually assaults her in a game of truth or dare, and calls her boyfriend, Ricky, to come over. Luke knocks Ricky out and ties him up, and proceeds to torment him and Ashley before calling her ex, Jeremy. Luke hits Ricky in the face with a paint can from the balcony, causing his head to explode, to Luke's sick glee. Jeremy arrives, and Luke goads him into writing an apology to Ashley before lynching him with the rope on the swing. Luke murders Garrett for trying to free Ashley, before stabbing her in the neck and framing Jeremy for his crimes. Upon discovering Ashley survived, Luke plans on "visiting" her at the hospital to finish her off.
Edited by ACW on Dec 25th 2022 at 4:05:11 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The MILF Virus
Another rewrite of some of my older entrees, Zenke did absolutely need to be revise and it felt Bernand should be on top since Zenke is really just a supporting villain around the middle of the game
- Fairy Fencer F:
- Bernard, in the original version, is a cold and deceptive man with dark plans to summon the Vile God. One of Dorfa's Heavenly Czars, Bernard leads the group's many hostile takeovers, terrorizing to gather all the Furies and gain absolute power. However, Bernard has his own scheme, using the group to collect the Furies for himself to then summon the Vile God for its power since, as a descendant of the god he can inherit it. To achieve this, he deceives Dorfa and drove Sherman into madness as a pawn to usurp Dorfa in another timeline. With Sherman's help, Bernard manage to resurrect the Vile God before trying to sacrifice him to attain full power, only for it to backfire horribly when Sherman double-crossed him first.
- Zenke of the Heavenly Czars is the psycho of the group, a bloodthirsty murderer who invaded Solaru Village and form a death system for the people. Every day, Zenke would pair villagers in an Involuntary Battle to the Death, pitting loved ones where if they refused, Zenke would execute both having done it so much he has moutains of corpses, including women and children. Kidnapping Tiara, he forced Fang to fight in a gauntlet for his entertainment without any real intent in keeping his end trying to execute him at the end. In the second timelines, Zenke was no different; losing against Fang again in the Goddess, Zenke kills off his own fairy partner, and tries to kill Fang after pretending to seek redemption. Even in the Evil Goddess route, Zenke starts off sympathetic reverts to his former self, turning even more psychotic. No matter what timeline Fang and Eryn enters, Zenke still remains the irredeemable killer that he truly is.
I have someone that I think needs further discussion. From the Without a Trace episode "Lost Boy."
Current writeup:
- "Lost Boy": An unnamed conman reaches new heights of depravity to satisfy his greed. Targeting families who had adopted children from Africa, he manipulates the parents into giving the kids to him. With the kids in hand, the conman happily sells them on the Black Market, uncaring about what horrific crimes would happen to the children so long as it lined his pockets.
Having just watched the episode in question, my issue with this is twofold. First, the conman in question isn't unnamed. His name is Isaac Garang. He introduces himself by name in his first onscreen appearance, and other characters refer to him by name multiple times over the course of the episode.
The bigger issue, though, is I feel this misrepresents and oversells what Garang actually does. He approaches Christopher Douglas, who has recently adopted a four year old Sudanese war orphan named Elijah, claiming to be Elijah's biological father. He convinces Douglas to pay him 50,000 dollars for his silence, then has his accomplice Luol mug the Douglas' housekeeper for her key and kidnaps Elijah anyway.
Back at Garang's apartment, Luol complains that Elijah is hungry, so Garang tosses him a bag of cheese puffs and says "He can eat that." Luol then notices that Garang is writing a ransom note, which confuses him, as Garang had told him that they kidnapped Elijah to return him to his birth parents. The note says that he'll kill Elijah if the Douglas' don't pay up, though Garang assures Luol it won't come to that. Luol asks what Garang will do if he's wrong and they don't pay, and he responds "Then I'll mail the boy back to them in tiny little pieces." Luol is so horrified by this that he stabs Garang to death.
So Isaac Garang is a despicable person, no question. The issue, though, is that the only reference to him having ever tried anything like this before is a single mention that he used to work as a translator at an adoption agency, but got fired for trying to run a paternity scam. I'm not sure this is enough to establish a pattern of behavior, and there's no mention of the black market being part of his plans.
Edited by apocalemur on Dec 25th 2022 at 11:16:48 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Garang
The Draftsman of Doom
Leaning cut for Isaac.
Quite concurred on cutting Isaac
Cut Isaac (Good work bringing that for re-eval!) and quite like the rewrites!
Cut Isaac
Professor Gigachad
I was slightly concerned on that, good for looking into that, Cut.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Wild Child
Cut Isaac.
Why so serious?
Cut Isaac for that misinformation in the writeup
Not the Eye
Cut isaac
Bye
Cut Isaac
Cut Garang
Yeah based on that, to keeping Garang.
Axe Isaac
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Garang seems like a cut.
Newton, please add the rewrites to the Drafts.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut the conman.
I'd just like to see consistency with whatever we pick... The Big O puts Alan first since he's The Dragon in the overall plot even though he doesn't appear for a long time after Eugene, who's a Villain of the Week; Riverdale put Satan and Dilton before Percival for appearing first even though Dilton's a single episode bad guy and Percival the Arc Villain; Tokyo Ghoul is a weird mix where Tsuneyoshi goes first for impact, the next two villains are by order and the Big Bad at the bottom because... reasons?