Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Goku Black
@Geode: yes that's why his entry only covers the first show.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
@ACW
Just use the one with the more grammatical sense. Not mine. Just get rid of the ‘conflict between fourth and third man’ because that doesn’t explicitly happen in the series.
Edited by PlatinumOni on Jun 16th 2023 at 3:29:49 AM
The wifi here sucks
Keep Caesar. Imo it's the same thing as any other villain with a silly defeat, it's just that his "defeat" is being turned into a joke for the rest of the series.
I started an image pickn' thread for the Suda 51 page here
Edited by papyru30 on Jun 16th 2023 at 6:52:03 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Yeah, you mean Rades? That one is also on very thin ice too. He's now close to being a walking joke, has one scene that I believe is played for laughs and pulled Patry back to life just to force him to atone, so I seriously have doubts of him counting after the Elf Reincarnation Arc.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Jun 16th 2023 at 10:55:48 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Speaking of Black Clover is there any reason the Big Bad doesn't count, or is his arc just not finished yet?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not finished yet, also doesn't seem to contradict WIE for now (sounds better for MB assuming if he doesn't do anything funky like Elesh Norn).
Maybe if he starts acting like Norn we can put him in after his arc ends.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Jun 16th 2023 at 11:24:59 PM
Bye
Keep Caesar
Hey guys, there's a TLP for The Sympatheic and yhe Pure Evil going on. It's a work in progress, but figured it might interest the people who frequent this thread.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Re: Yazam
While Yazam does becomes a Butt-Monkey. Dude actually manages to kill a named crew member during ZZ and is very explicit about how he wants to continue to kill. Then he just gets Out of Focus and vanishes from the storyline implying that his fate will be being a hobo
Watch me destroying my country
RIP Toriyama
So, as I bring up a new Spidey-related villain on the Proposal thread, unfortunately have a cut to make. From the "Recurring Villains" section:
- Professor Miles Warren is a geneticist and one-time protégé of the High Evolutionary who worked as a professor at Empire State University, where he developed an unhealthy obsession with Gwen Stacy—ostensibly due to her resemblance to his late wife. After Gwen was murdered by the Green Goblin, Miles blamed Spider-Man and adopted the persona of the Jackal to torment him. Over the years, Miles has created numerous clones of Gwen Stacy, Peter Parker, as well as himself—to the point where it is rarely clear which Miles is a clone and which is the original. Frequently using the clones of himself to fake his own death, Miles famously gaslit Peter Parker and Ben Reilly into believing the former was the clone and the latter the original Spider-Man. Miles and his clones have also engineered the Carrion Virus—killing thousands—based on the cellular degeneration his creations undergo upon death; caused the global collapse of the honeybee population to amuse himself; helped Adriana Soria infect New York with the "spider-virus" before double-crossing her to obtain her DNA; tortured Ben Reilly into insanity by murdering and re-cloning him dozens of times; and kidnapped the Gwen Stacy of Earth-65 with the intent of raping her.
To make it short and simple? Jackal's Freudian Excuse gets two separate flashbacks in two separate comics, from two separate writers, that detail how he lost his wife and kids and that being what drove him mad. Characters even reference that before this he seemed a far more good person, and Miles's entire obsession with Gwen is treated as a direct consequence of her resembling his lost wife. It's an aspect of his character far, far too intrinsically tied to his motivations to brush aside as simple Depending on the Writer, IMO. The brunt of Jackal's character is "he wants to control Gwen"...and that desire is given a direct origin relating to his dead family.
The original effortpost mentioned this FE with the addendum that a hero "calls the story's veracity into question", but ultimately it's just Scarlet Spider being shocked at hearing the tale. It gets onscreen flashbacks in not only that comic, but another one where the narrative explicitly shows the circumstances again, almost exactly the same, and further ties Jackal's insane obsession with Gwen into the loss of his family. It's far too much to simply brush aside, IMO, and I think he's gotta be cut posthaste.
Edited by Ravok on Jun 17th 2023 at 6:43:09 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Cut Miles Warren. I was always sketchy about him going up (IIRC it was only shaky continuity and the question of who is/isn't a clone in certain scenes) but the demise of his family is a consistent element of his character. Ravok pointed out to me, for example, that you can't have that bit with the High Evolutionary without regarding his tragic backstory as canon.
Cut Jackal. That FE does ring a bell
Showtime!
Cut Jackal
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Woagh
Cut Miles Warren.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Lies and Violence!
Cut the Jackal.
The Emperor of Evil!
Cut Miles, was starting to find the backstory thing sketchy after awhile.
Cut Jackal.
I noticed the grammar of the entry for the Minister on YMMV/AintSlayedNobody was altered from my original post
— "bus'" being converted to "bus's" in what I think is a contravention of the first-come first-serve policy regarding grammar.
It also changes the meaning of one of the sentences to make it sound like the Minister is the one suggesting driving the bus through the park, when it was Ben who suggested it after being mentally broken by the Minister's gaslighting.
Another edit replaces an emdash with an "and" without a comma to space things out. The emdash may be superfuous, but breaking it up with a semicolon would flow better than turning it into a run-on sentence, in my opinion.
Edited by Arawn999 on Jun 18th 2023 at 6:28:30 AM
Cut Miles Warren.
Cut Jackal and is the grammar rule page-wide or by entry? I ask because this is an extremely minor thing I'm noticing come up on repeat which really doesn't seem worth the heed.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cut Jackal
"No running in the halls!"
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Going by Tips on Grammar, it's on the same first-come first-served by-entry basis as English vs. American spelling and the Oxford comma. I think it was ruled that minor alterations like this could be made without dragging it before the cleanup thread, but I didn't want to make the edit only to find out I was wrong.
Also, the other changes I mentioned are a bit more significant and as such I do feel it warrents bringing them up here — particularly since the one regarding the comma changes the sentence to make it sound like the Minister was the one who suggested driving the bus through the park.
ACW's version:
My proposed rewrite (changes bolded to make them stand out):
Edited by Arawn999 on Jun 18th 2023 at 6:31:05 AM
Not the Eye
Cut Jackal
The wifi here sucks
Cut Jackal
I got a small rewrite for a Law and Order candidate to clear up a bit that makes his bodycount seem bigger than it actually is (his total victim count is around 30 with 18 bodies being found in his hideout)
Old
- "Manhunt": Darryl Kern is a former soldier discharged for believing that soldiers enjoy killing. Taking that enjoyment to the streets, Kern makes a hobby of raping, torturing, and murdering women, granting him the moniker the "Bowery Stalker". When his hideout is discovered by the police, they discover his victim's bodies, some which are of children, buried there, amounting to around 30 deaths. Having his assistant Posey, a mentally fragile man, kidnap a woman and her daughter, Kern kills Posey and then tries to kill his kidnapped victims.
New
- "Manhunt": Darryl Kern is a former soldier discharged for believing that soldiers enjoy killing. Taking that enjoyment to the streets, Kern makes a hobby of raping, torturing, and murdering women, granting him the moniker the "Bowery Stalker". When his hideout is discovered by the police, they discover 18 more bodies of his victims, some which are of children, buried there. Having his assistant Marvin Posey, a mentally fragile man, kidnap a woman and her daughter, Kern kills Posey and then tries to kill his kidnapped victims. By the time of his arrest Kern had killed at least 30 people.
Edited by papyru30 on Jun 18th 2023 at 9:52:31 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Keep Clown for the moment