Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Goku Black
Not sure on Fairhaven.
The page has this
- Freudian Excuse: Fairhaven becomes obsessed with immortality as a result of watching his older brother die a horrible death from old age at sixteen thanks to progeria.
I Think Leng got rejected at first since he's deceased in the actual book despite us seeing his notes and body. Tbh I think he might be worth a relook under the new rules. But I don't know Pendergast enough for that.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Cur examples and send PM to the troper
If you guys don't mind, there's a CM that I am not sure keeps or should go that I want to discuss. I looked back at the old subpages and it seems people were confused is this guy is bad enough or should be cut.
The character I'm talking about is Kyohei Jingu from Yakuza.
Basically he was approved for starting a Mob War and trying to kill his daughter who is just a kid. However, a Mob War is pretty common for the series, for example Ryuji Goda and another already approved CM, one that I am also not sure keeps or not, has done it as well, being Kei Ibuchi. When it comes to attempting to kill his daughter Haruka, while bad, I am not sure if it is enough to make him a CM, as it is just one person, and plus, killing a child isn't completely unique, as in Yakuza 6, Sugai and Iwami tried to have Haruto, who is a baby, killed. But maybe the fact that Haruka is related to him makes him stand out enough.
Overall, like I said before, I'm not sure if he keeps or not. What do you guys think?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I cut Astarte BTW.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
I admit I uh dunno in Jingu. Like it was okay when he was like first approved. But like considering that's the premise of like every game in the series uh...
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Started an IP thread for Monster.Call Of Duty since it was brought up before.
Also asked about the Monster.EC Comics image on the general IP thread since that was brought up too, as well as Monster.Final Fantasy since I have questions of my own about that one.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jan 30th 2023 at 1:37:53 PM
I'm also not sure about Kei Ibuchi as well, like I said before. Like Jingu, many other villains have started a mob war, and at least Jingu has the bonus crime of trying to kill his daughter who is a kid, whereas Ibuchi has no other additional crimes that are unique for the series, so I want to hear others' thoughts on him as well as Jingu.
Professor Gigachad
I will lean on Cut for Jingiu as well as Kei, if a Mob War is really that common I don't see them standing out. Also cut Yamime.
So I think it is safe to cut the Qualet and Rekka, they have more cut votes than keep.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 30th 2023 at 12:01:04 PM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
While we're at it, what does Takashima have going for him again? Personally he always felt lacking to me when compared to the likes of Iwami, Dojima, or even Jingu (though that may just he because he's The Unfought.)
Edited by echiniccoolies on Jan 30th 2023 at 11:50:16 AM
Professor Gigachad
Honestly looking at the Like a Dragon page, I think this honestly might need a reevaluation as a whole, a lot of the villains are really starting to blend to together to me in terms of crimes.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Cut Jingu and Kei
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Let me ping ~Michealthehero21, as I think he got up most if not all of those keepers.
- I think the 4 spinoff ones are PROBABLY okay. DD definitely is.
- Takashima plants bombs, so he may be safe.
- Seishiro Munakata is a Dirty Cop instead of a Yakuza, so I'm inclined to keep him.
- Yuji Katsuura has a unique niche, so I say keep him.
- Tsuneo Iwami attempts to have an infant killed; if that's unique, he's probably okay.
- As for the rest, I don't know.
The only that I can see being cut is Jingu. As for Kei, you'll have to ask Awesomekid 42 since he proposed him. Everyone else should be fine honestly.
Goku Black
From memory of eps.
Isao's massacre is apparently quige large for the series while Dojima being a serial rapist is also unique.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
So, about Adam Smasher, I heard he made an appearance in Cyberpunk: Edgerunners, is it worth a mention at least?
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Barb / Temporary Kylo
I think it was agreed to add in the crime he commits in that show(Brutally killing a girl IIRC) there.
The First man
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He curb-stomps David's crew on orders from Arasaka — crushing Rebecca into a mangled pulp by body-slamming her at terminal velocity — and rampages across Night City in order to kill David — but recognizes him as a Worthy Opponent and offers to digitize his consciousness so he can become an immortal AI. David refuses, so Adam Smasher murks him.
After much deliberation, I am proposing that Soul Edge from the Soulcalibur series — which I myself suggested — be moved to the "Former Complete Monster" page.
While it was originally a regular sword untold millennia ago, it was infected and cursed by the hatred, malice, and blood of its wielders and victims (essentially, kegare — the Japanese concept of spiritual corruption) and by the time of the games it is pretty explicitly Made of Evil.
Edited by Arawn999 on Jan 30th 2023 at 3:01:06 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Soul Edge
Cut Soul Edge.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Ok, but what should I refer to the events in Cyberpunk: Edgerunners as?
Also, Arawn, you don't need to worry too much about spoilers here- most of us have already seen the events in question.
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Jan 30th 2023 at 3:14:18 AM
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Just call me Solemn.
Cut Soul Edge.
Have we reached a verdict on the Tales of Halloween quartet? Or did I announce the final score too soon?
Edited by ShootingStar7X on Jan 30th 2023 at 3:19:01 AM
Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
IIRC Edgerunners is set roughly a year before the Cyberpunk 2077 game, so... that's a good question. Before his fight with the main character of the game, I suppose?
It's a question I've brought up before, but I really don't see why Adam Smasher needs separate write ups for the tabletop game and video game. They are set in the same, and sole, canon, thus it doesn't make any sense why we need to have short entries for the same character rather than simply merging them and putting the combined entry on both pages.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
I know, that's why I meant it to be a minor update.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Find this on The Cabinet of Curiosities (appropriate given disscusion on proposal thread).