We have determined that Lets Players are not inherently tropable. They need to provide some sort of narrative, characters, and story to be allowed on this wiki. This applies to Vtubers just as much as other content creators, but Kayfabe makes the distinction between streamer and character particularly fuzzy.
The purpose of the thread is to remove tropes from pages concerning Vtubers that apply only to the actor rather than the character.
- If there is not a clear separation between the character and the actor, we assume that it is the actor represented, and thus they are not tropable.
- In other words, it is up to the user writing the example to show that it pertains to the character and not the actor.
- Regardless, the content they produce must meet our standards for Web Video, meaning substantial original and/or transformative material.
- A vlog, review, or Let's Play does not become tropable just because the person doing it has an anime avatar.
More details in this post
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For our full policy, visit our Administrivia page on Real Life Troping.
PLEASE do not argue over the guidelines here. We've been through that argument too many times and it slows the cleanup effort down. Asking if some grey area meets the guidelines is okay. Arguing that the guidelines should be changed are not. If you would like to discuss the guidelines, go to the Real-Person Troping Policy thread
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Edited by badtothebaritone on Oct 12th 2022 at 4:58:06 AM
Lost in Space
Hi, folks. Someone contacted us to contest the addition of MarinaVT on OvershadowedByControversy.Web Original. I am completely ignorant of any controversies surrounding VTubers and I have no interest in learning, but I do find the example questionable for two reasons. First, it uses hyperbolic language when it should be stating facts. Second, it's very recent: less than a week old.
Per site policy we should not be troping "hot off the press" controversies. Moreover, we should only apply Overshadowed by Controversy if there is a significant long-term effect on the reception or viewership of a creator's work. Finally, there is the ever-present question of what is in-character vs. OOC for VTubers.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
the Retromancer
I have no idea who she is, but I can check the example.
Anyway, I agree with removing it unless there's evidence MarinaVT is still "known as the woman who bullied Pikamee off the internet", and if she it the example should be focusing on that only. TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Lost in Space
We could pull in ~Siegfried1337, who first added the example.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The passages labeled "self-contradictory", as well as "Irrelevant", those are on me. If they gotta go on those grounds, then I can just excise those sections out, though I should probably move the context of GYARI's video statement to the passage that's labeled "This would fit OBC if this rep remains in the long run", with the bracketed section looking something like this afterward.
(Using GYARI's video statement released after the announcement of Pikamee's graduation, in which he stated that this had been in the works in the months leading up to the announcement, as "evidence" with which to absolve herself of responsibility)
As for the label itself, when Siegfried1337 first brought up the initial version of the block for vetting on the previous page, they mentioned what happened when GLYTCH energy drinks announced that they were sponsoring MarinaVT (ie. The announcement tweet was almost immediately bombarded with users letting GLYTCH know what kind of person Marina was and what they did to Pikamee back in March).
While obviously the OBC label can't be applied to the announcement (it's only a week or two old, and thus can't be included in the block), approximately 6 months have passed between what happened in March and the GLYTCH sponsorship announcement. IE, the reputation still remains even 6 months after.
Edited by HashiriyaR32 on Sep 20th 2023 at 9:40:34 AM
the Retromancer
Would this be better? This still needs a proof-check of someone who remembers it better.
- Overshadowed by Controversy: MarinaVT has become known as "the woman who bullied Pikamee off the internet", due to being involved in the large harassment campaign against the latter in February 2023 for streaming Hogwarts Legacy, shortly followed by Pikamee going on indefinite hiatus. In March 1st Pikamee has announced retirement from VOMS Project on her own volition, and while GYARI has stated that this was planned in advance and isn't related to the harassment, fan communities hold MarinaVT directly responsible for it even long after.
Edited by Amonimus on Sep 20th 2023 at 5:07:46 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
I think that will work, though March 1st was when the Pikamee's grad was announced, and the end of the month was when she left VOMS.
Lost in Space
Factual, concise, and nonjudgmental is the preferred format for such things, as long as they meet the six-month requirement.
The missing part from that writeup, unless I glazed over it, is the effect it has had on MarinaVT's channel and/or career. "Being known as the X" is not OBC unless there is a measurable cost to a creator in terms of viewers, sponsorships, etc., or if they've been driven off of platforms.
Edited by Fighteer on Sep 20th 2023 at 11:14:50 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
You may be confusing it with something like Role-Ending Misdemeanor; the only real requirement to be OBC is that people think of the controversy before anything else.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Lost in Space
Never mind, that's right. But OBC really feels like gossip and should be held to a strict standard.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
You called? If this is about that example, I can modify or remove the example if you want.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
I've heard of the Marina controversy, and I think it's mainly on Twitter. All I heard is that she denied the allegations, but I don't know whether her word is true or not.
I've got a question in regards to editing for Yugamin's folder, which is the mascot of NIJISANJI.
I want to add Voices Are Mental because any "affiliated liver can transform into Yugamin, but keep their own voices, with possibly some alterations to their original voices".
Since Yugamin has no defined personality and he has been portrayed in numerous ways by the livers (cute mascot, creepy loanshark, stalker, etc.), I want to ask if there is a trope regarding his ever-changing personality.
Edited by MajinAkuma on Sep 20th 2023 at 12:10:04 PM
the Retromancer
Okay, I'll try.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
I've implemented your rewrite for MarinaVT's OBC entry, Amonimus. Also, from what I've heard, her name has become so toxic that even associating with her could land you into trouble.
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Sep 20th 2023 at 4:00:15 AM
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Wrong thread.
Edited by AnoBakaDesu on Sep 22nd 2023 at 9:39:00 AM
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
the Retromancer
How is it related to the cleanup? Or you may have mistaken the thread for media discussion.
Hi
I was going to add this to Zentraya's article, but figured I'd better run it by here first:
- Bland-Name Product: In late September '23, Zen debuted a "casual outfit" skin which, among its features, gives her an option to eat from a bag of "Dogitos" chips.
Chronic lore addict
Although I did say I wanted to recuse myself from cleanups, I couldn't help but report that additional IRL TearJerker.Hololive examples are still being added, despite a commented-out warning informing editors of the policy and this thread being present at the top.
For posterity, they are the following:
- While playing NEEDY STREAMER OVERLOAD, Shiori opened up about her "archival studies" and how she was basically told what to do and who to be with no real direction of her own, and how she eventually took up VTubing as an escape from her troubles. The twinkly music box BGM only adds to the melancholy atmosphere.
- During her Street Fighter 6 stream where she hit Platinum rank, Korone finally opened up about Nanai, one of her coaches at the Crazy Raccoon invitational tournament, who had died of heart failure a couple of months later after flying home from the Evo 2023 tournament. She mentioned how her sadness at his passing caused her to lose motivation to play the game for a while, until she finally decided to just look forward and get back into it. The resulting stream saw her surpass her goal of Gold rank, finally making Platinum. In the end, she dedicated her stream to Nanai and asked the koronesuki take screenshots so that Nanai would see her rank wherever he was.
Korone: Nanai-san! I've made it to Platinum!
- During the Crazy Raccoon Street Fighter 6 invitational at the 2023 Tokyo Game Show, the normally stoic Botan broke down in tears after losing one of her matches due to how much she felt she let her team down. This marks only the second time that Botan has ever cried on stream (the first being when she addressed Coco's graduation), showing just how much the game and the tournament meant to her. She cried again later in the set when her teammate, pro player Dogura (himself an SSRB) won his match, helping cement their third-place finish.
All have been cut with notifiers sent.
"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
RJ Savoy
Seems like an example to me.
Hi
Was this the correct action to take regarding that Cannot Keep a Secret entry?
the Retromancer
That's not a personality trait as far as I'm concerned, it's streamer's behavior (out of character). If it was it'd be closer to Actor Allusion.
RJ Savoy
Some Vtubers have made their "forbidden lore", as the fans call it, part of their character, as if they had a terrible secret backstory that was not meant for humans to know. I sometimes hear of Kson's "draconic heritage", though I don't know if she herself has used the term. But it has to be written with that in mind, so I agree with commenting it out.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
I suggest condensing it into:
- Idol Singer: There are some similarities between certain VTubers (especially Japanese performers with a focus on singing) and more traditional idols, and some shared terms (such as "graduation" for when a VTuber stops performing as that character). It has lead to an expectation, at least in Japan, that VTubers should act "seiso" ("pure" or "wholesome")
as idols are expected to, and one specific effect is a reticence around cross-sex collabs. The connection however is weak, and VTubers and their fans are likelier to joke about being "seiso" than play it straight.- There are groups that are explicitly intended to be virtual idols, such as GEMS COMPANY.
- hololive in particular started off advertising itself as a group of "virtual idols" and expected the talents to behave accordingly when performing. But this stance weakened over time, with talents and the audience preferring more freedom to perform. Even more so after it opened Western and Indonesian branches whose fans aren't as tied in to the subculture.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.