To-do list:
- Redirect Nerd to Indexed and Nerdy.
-
Split off a new Stereotypical Nerd trope.Done.
I noticed some vague examples for the trope while wick cleaning for Hollywood Nerd and discussed it here
which led me to doing a wick check.
Total Wicks Checked = 100
Issue 1 is big in scope but I think is a fairly straightforward fix and that's the fairly extensive ZCE issue. Nearly half of all wicks are ZCE, not including random potholes in sentences which makes up another 12% of wicks. Substantial uses of the trope make up only 40% of examples.
- I think the name is causing some of this since, as a one word title for a fairly common word, people are just plopping it in and calling it a day. If we make the name slightly less "plop down-able" it could curb some of this behavior. Something like Nerd Archetype or Stereotypical Nerd. To make sure the ZC Es are fixed, we'd probably just need to follow up with some wick cleaning.
Issue 2, and the bigger problem I think, is the misuse. From what I understand, the Nerd is an Archetypal Character with the following traits:
- stereotypical bad fashion, with the classic representation being plaid button down shirt or a polo, high waisted belted pants, suspenders, and a pocket protector (but other not trendy fashion can fit)
- not physically attractive due to Geek Physique and a lack of care about outer appearance, often times this includes acne, thick Nerd Glasses, braces, and unstylish hair
- socially awkward in some way (shy and clams up when talking to people, talks too much and can't read the room, etc)
- unpopular. This can be as little as them not occupying a high spot in the Popularity Food Chain, but still having a friend/a small circle of friends or can mean they are a complete loner amongst their peers
- victim of bullying or teasing, especially by the most popular students
- interests in "nerdy" hobbies that are typically non-mainstream and niche subcultures based on things you need a deep knowledge (be it technical or lore based) to enjoy, e.g. tech, sci-fi works, fantasy works, anime, collecting things, etc.
There are some other traits that can show up to give the nerd a different "flavor" (being genuinely intelligent, pedantic about their topic of interest, turning typically mundane or casual things into Serious Business, etc), but the core seems to be what's listed above and that's more or less discussed in the current trope description. Much like other archetypes like the Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype, not every box needs to be checked but the majority do need to be to qualify.
However, people are treating the trope less like a defined stereotype and more like a personality trait. For example, several tropers give a character who just says the read comic books this trope, despite that not being enough to fulfill the stereotype. Of the remaining 40 wicks, 45% of them are correct (or 18% of the total 100 wicks). The remaining wicks fall into 2 categories: a person who shows interest in niche or otherwise considered "geeky" interests like Tabletop games, video games, tech and computers, and the hard sciences; a person who is smart or has an in-depth knowledge on a particular topic (often one that is also considered "geeky").
- Other than the name change and clean up of wicks, I'm not sure how to fix this. Perhaps tweaking the description a bit so it more straightforwardly lists the traits (like how Messianic Archetype and Satanic Archetype do) and explicitly states characters need to meet some min number of the characteristics to qualify might help.
- I've also been mulling over whether we can conform to the misuse somewhat by directing all of the "has geeky interests" examples to Geek, which is currently definition only, or Otaku, Fanboy, Fangirl (though these last 3 are both more specific and more nebulous and may need to be looked at themselves, so maybe not). The "just is smart" examples can probably be cut entirely or redirected to The Smart Guy if the character is part of a team/group.
Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 5th 2022 at 6:47:27 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think keeping the image is fine. It's a good example of the trope
I finished writing the description in the sandbox for the new trope. Feedback and edits would be great.
As for the examples, I went through and removed the blatant ZC Es and any PC Es I didn't personally know. I did however, mark a bunch in red as PC Es that I'm pretty sure are the trope but just lack a few more details. I'll probs go in and add to those examples later, but if anyone else wants to expand on them before they get cut, feel free to
Edited by amathieu13 on Jun 30th 2022 at 7:53:43 AM
Bumping as it's been a week with 0 feedback
(she/her)
The description is fine. As for the examples, I am afraid I can't help with that.
Macron's notes
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Same here.
clarifying question. one of the qualities for the stereotypical nerd is/ should be insecurity or lack of self-confidence regarding social situations, especially those having to deal with romance, right?
That's why Extraverted Nerd exists, as it subverts that assumption, right?
Edited by amathieu13 on Jul 9th 2022 at 1:05:58 PM
No, that trope actually mean a stereotypical nerd having no awareness of being nerdy. This is a true I strongly think should be renamed.
Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
but the result of the Extraverted Nerd having no awareness of his nerdiness is that he has none of the typical social anxiety hang ups that come with it, right?
Thats what makes him extraverted. Knowing you're a nerd = shame and anxiety for being different / not like the cool kids. Not knowing = no shame, no anxiety, because you don't see yourself as different from the cool kids ergo you are social and self-assured
(she/her)
I do think social awkwardness( especially in romantic situations) is part of the stereotypical nerd package.
Macron's notes
(she/her)
Since we have failed to get further feedback, I think we can add social awkwardness/insecurities to the sandbox just so that we can move forward with the thread.
Macron's notes
Ok will do
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I'm fine with just swapping in the sandbox after adding what was previously mentioned (if it hasn't been added already).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 2nd 2022 at 5:46:43 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
There are a few more examples I need to clean up and then we can swap and start wick cleaning
Sorry for the wait. The draft of the stereotypical nerd rewrite is good to go and on page examples have been checked. If others think it's good, we can swap it in and begin dewicking
(she/her)
Sandbox looks good to me. I'll just swap it in and index it. Too sleep-deprived for crosswicking though.
Macron's notes
all of the on page examples have been crosswicked so now it's just down to cleaning up the nerd wicks. There are 1417 in total [1]
Since the wick check showed more than half being ZCE, you can likely cut most. Those that have context, remember to double check that it fulfills the new required characteristics. Doesn't have to hit all, but def has to hit most.
The laconic version of those characteristics are: An unattractive (by physical features or styling), socially inept, and socially unpopular stock character with geeky interests.
Down to 1100.
Most have been potholes or unimportant links in sentences (i.e. "When nerdy John has to make a speech he gets stage fright") so removing them / replacing them with just the plain text has been quick and easy. Things'll probs slow down once we hit the character pages, but for now it's pretty painless
Edited by amathieu13 on Sep 27th 2022 at 11:31:53 AM
966 wicks
763. can a mod remove the ghost wick on Society? I've tried with null edits a couple of times but nothing seems to work
(she/her)
^ You just need to add a wick to the page and then remove it/add a wick and leave it on the page if appropriate (I think I told you this before). Pages with no wicks create ghost wicks. The nerd was the only wick on the page so you created a ghost wick by removing it. Adding a wick back to the page updates the related to lists.
Wick mentions these types of ghost wicks as well. You don't need a mod to do this as the page already exists. I'll fix it by adding and then removing a wick anyways though.
Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 12th 2022 at 8:19:31 AM
Macron's notes
Yes I have asked about this before. I was told to make a null edit, but the part about that edit having to include a wick was either not relayed clearly or I misread it. You can see from the page history that I did try a few times before bringing it here.
In any case, thanks for the removal
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
So, what kind of wicks should be changed to Indexed and Nerdy? What should be removed?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
most wicks will just be removed since we don't treat indices as tropes. If it's being used as a trope in a work/character sheet, you 100% don't link to the index.
you can replace Nerd with a more appropriate trope on Indexed and Nerdy if it fits, but that's more of a courtesy than a requirement.
If an example lists the majority of the characteristics on Stereotypical Nerd, you can replace it with that, but most examples I've come across don't (which was why the trope was brought into TRS in the first place)
Edited by amathieu13 on Oct 12th 2022 at 8:50:27 AM
Crown Description:
Nerd has been misused for any character with nerdy interests are characteristics even though they don't fit the stereotype.
Will the image get transplanted as well? Even though Revenge of the Nerds is Condemned by History, the image still rather showed what the Stereotypical Nerd could look like.
There's so much I wish I could take back.