Misused: Mondegreen

The trope Mondegreen is experiencing quite a bit of misuse. It's supposed to be In-Universe Examples Only following a previous TRS rework, but it's used quite a bit as a YMMV trope (even on the main pages) alongside other misuses such as using it instead of Lady Mondegreen and just not putting it in an appropriate place. I've done a full wick check at Sandbox.Mondegreen Wick Check, but to summarize the results:

Correct usage: 26/50, 52%

YMMV: 9/50, 18%

Misuse: 15/50, 30%; six of these, or 12% of the examples, is YMMV on the main page.

The definition is pretty clear about what the trope is supposed to be, but there is still a fair amount of misuse. Given how much of it is related to YMMV usage, there are a few ways this could be handled, including splitting the trope for an In-Universe and YMMV equivalent or simply removing it from In-Universe Examples Only.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 2nd 2021 at 10:28:04 AM

Opening this. I don't agree with a split as I don't find In-Universe/out-of-universe a splitworthy distinction.

I think we should just clean up out-of-universe examples. I disagree with a split, and I agree with the previous thread's decision to make it IUEO because out-of-universe usage was too broad and tended to attract personal examples.

There was also this thread from after Troper Tales was removed from the site. People using Mondegreen for personal examples isn't a new problem.

Agreed. Basically just monitor the trope's usage on YMMV, maybe make it clear on the page itself with "this is not a YMMV trope. Please don't add it to YMMV/ pages."

So it's looking like the consensus is just to keep everything as is and just remove YMMV examples when they're seen - sounds fine to me, I agree that allowing personal examples would probably be a misuse magnet, and it's probably easier to cut the present misuse instead of trying to fight off the new kinds

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on May 2nd 2021 at 9:26:49 AM

IUEO

It is already on IUEO. I think we just need to make it clearer and display it more strongly.

How ‘bout a rename?

I'm inclined to think a YMMV version for mishearings widespread among the fandom might be worth having, but the only example I can actually think of that isn't covered by Memetic Mutation is the "chu"/"shoot" confusion.

And yes this runs into the "thing only I experienced is surely worth an entry on the YMMV page" issue, but isn't that something most YMMV items have to deal with?

Edited by wingedcatgirl on May 2nd 2021 at 9:30:42 AM

^^ Gimme one that is clear on the fact that it's in-universe only.

We are battling an iceberg here by ignoring the user experience of the phenomenon. The trope is more prevalent in RL than it is in fiction.

Edited by eroock on May 2nd 2021 at 7:41:43 AM

Mondegreen is already the common term for the phenomenon, so a rename isn’t necessary.

I think we should just clean the YMMV examples.

I’m inclined to believe that any RL mishearings widespread among a fandom can probably be covered by Memetic Mutation, but I’m not sure what to do about the very few that can’t.

I agree that widespread mishearings probably already count as memes.

Edit: Also, I'm against renaming. This is a preexisting term.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 2nd 2021 at 2:33:35 PM

If we do need a new title, it'd have to capture the in-universe aspect more.

I agree with cleanup and no rename. Wouldn't hurt to send some notifiers if a YMMV misuse is recent.

I'm good with cleaning it up.

So it's looking like it's just gonna be a cleanup crew here - I expect a lot of the YMMV examples will end up under Memetic Mutation - but my only concern is the fact that this is not the first time this issue has become prevalent enough to warrant a thread. Is there really anything that can be done besides just doing cleanup when it gets bad enough? If there's really not then fair enough, but I just wonder if there's a way to ensure we don't end up here again.

Also a good point, I was just mentioning it because as it stands now most YMMV Mondegreens could likely fit under that, but yeah, gotta wait til that's out of TRS too

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on May 2nd 2021 at 8:09:04 AM

Bear in mind, Memetic Mutation is also in TRS right now, so I don't want to jump to any conclusions.

The crowner in that thread is nearly unanimously in favor of expanding Memetic Mutation to cover fandom in-jokes, with about 15 years and only one nay.

Sure, but it's only been a few days. I just don't want us to jump the gun and get our cleanup attempts reverted.

I think the "commonly misheard phrase" could just count as Common Knowledge if it's not Memetic Mutation.

A rename might be helpful. Maybe something as simple as Misheard Phrase? Note that another trope with the Trope Namer, Lady Mondegreen, is still YMMV, and I think it fits better there even if it's not a super common item.

Is it still okay to keep the quotes page for out-of-universe examples?

For the quotes thing, I say no since it is misleading.