Complaining: Snark Bait

So far we have three proposed ideas (1 isn't mutually exclusive with 2 or 3, but 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive):

1. Make Flame Bait
2. Make Definition Only
3. Clean up examples

Edit: I saw the general examples on Snark Bait have been cleaned up.

Edited by ADrago on Apr 26th 2020 at 10:22:12 AM

I removed it from the sandbox page with an edit reason linking to this thread.

I think we should make it flame bait and definition only.

I'm still in favor of Flame Bait + definition-only, like what we previously did with Internet Backdraft.

Flame Bait seems to be agreed upon, then.

I say just clean it up. Snark Bait is supposed to be about popular works that are widely mocked, like Sword Art Online and the Pokémon anime.

Not sure if we already have enough consensus, but I made a crowner in case we don't.

I also vote, and I can't find the correct term for this, to make it On-Page Examples Only, like with So Bad, It's Horrible.

I don't think there's an index for that; at the very least, So Bad, It's Horrible isn't on such an index. I simply made the crowner based on the options ADrago posted and assumed that they meant that making it Flame Bait without making it definition-only would mean setting it up like SBIH and Character Derailment, since Flame Bait would already mean that wicks aren't allowed on non-Flame Bait pages (as opposed to how cleaning up examples without making it Flame Bait would just mean going over wicks and on-page examples).

If it matters, Internet Backdraft became a definition-only page because it was previously indexed under No On-Page Examples, so there were no on-page examples to keep.

Also, sorry for not originally adding the option to do nothing. Not sure how I missed that.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 27th 2020 at 11:49:49 AM

I agree with this course of action.

The thing with Snark Bait is that it’s our designated audience reaction for bad works, and the only one that’s not Flame Bait.

I don't get why so many people are against a cleanup thread. It's worked very well for So Bad, It's Horrible.

SBIH wasn't being extremely misused before the cleanup thread came around, for one thing. For another, that's Darth, so standards are looser and the only thing the cleanup thread really gets rid of are things that are factually inaccurate or aren't hated enough to qualify.

Snark Bait is a completely different case. It's misused far worse while being a normal YMMV trope, which means not only is there always going to be an uphill battle of bad examples getting added, but it'll be a much slower process. Not every Cleanup thread becomes CM and MB; many fizzle out and die within a month or two. If people don't have interest in finding and cleaning up Snark Bait misuse, the thread won't live long.

I see some of your points, but it seems a bit... unwise to dismiss the idea based on the possibility that it might not get enough traction. We could at least try it first.

I added an option for "Make on-page examples only".

GeneralGigan817: Bile Fascination isn't Flame Bait either. I wouldn't be opposed to making it In-Universe Examples Only, but that's a question for another thread.

@War Jay As for the bit about this being a normal YMMV trope... well, you're not wrong, but consensus so far is overwhelmingly in favor of making it Flame Bait, so I don't think that's gonna be a problem for much longer.

Right.

And once it becomes Flame Bait it can't have examples unless they're in-universe, ruling out the need for cleanup. Cleanup would only be helpful if it wasn't going to change labels and if the misuse wasn't so overwhelming as to necessitate this thread in the first place.

I thought at least some Flame Bait tropes are allowed to have on-page examples. Was I wrong about that?

Anyway, disallowing examples off the page would make cleanup less intensive. We'd just have to remove out-of-universe examples from work pages and keep an eye on the trope page, while also checking the wicks once in a while to make sure it's not being re-added where it shouldn't be.

At that point an organized cleanup would just be superfluous, when we in fact have a thread dedicated to things like this already. If the trope remains misused (or used at all) after this, problems could be taken there. Otherwise, it's just such a slow, endless, and less-efficient way of fixing the problem than any other option available.

Organized cleanup threads seem to work best when/if:

• The misuse, while pervasive, doesn't completely consume the trope
• If it does consume the trope, it's a trope people are willing to spend time cleaning and discussing
• It's a situation that wouldn't be able to be cleanly solved with a TRS thread, either because its too complicated (like Ho Yay), requires constant curation (CM and MB), or the issue just isn't major enough to require one.

Snark Bait's misuse amount is staggering and I just can't imagine people would be interested in it enough to spend time working on a designated cleanup project for it. Additionally, 90% of our options here would make a cleanup thread unnecessary anyway, either because there'd be too few examples to actually bother with one, or because there'd be no examples at all.

Flame Bait is allowed to have on-page examples unless it's also on Definition-Only Pages, as seen with Periphery Hatedom and Character Derailment.

Edited by rjd1922 on Apr 28th 2020 at 11:18:20 AM

Bumping this in case we are still working on it.

I can work on the wicks tomorrow, but there's over 1200 of them. I don't think I can do that myself.

What should we do about the index in the description? Some of those Tropes, Trivia items, and Audience Reactions don't necessarily make a work Snark Bait.