Sounds good on paper (he/him)
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I think the supertrope and index options should be separate, and possibly with an option to rename Your Cheating Heart if it's turned into an index.
I thought we already agreed on turning Your Cheating Heart into the Infidelity Index? Is not even that fully settled?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
We need a name changing crowner.
Gotcha. So do we have the name changing crowner after the page action one, or can we fold that into here?
How do these options look?
- Turn Your Cheating Heart into an exampleless supertrope, with the possibility of a rename
- Turn Your Cheating Heart into an index, with the possibility of a rename
- Cut Sympathetic Adulterer and Good Adultery, Bad Adultery
- Merge Sympathetic Adulterer into Good Adultery, Bad Adultery
- Keep Sympathetic Adulterer and Good Adultery, Bad Adultery separate; redefine Good Adultery, Bad Adultery as "different standards for different affairs"
- Cut Cuckold
- Redefine Cuckold as "a man's wife cheats on him/is suspected of cheating on him and he feels emasculated"
Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 25th 2020 at 9:40:42 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Don't forget the classic "Do Nothing" option; we may need to add it for each trope we're discussing though, just so people have the option to say, "I'd like to cut Cuckold, but do nothing to Good Adultery, Bad Adultery".
Got it. Page action crowner
, hollering to hook.
Hi
Got it.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Does "with a possibility of a rename" mean that a Single Proposition crowner would be run afterward?
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Isn't "do nothing with cuckold" a bit of a tautology? By definition, it's the NON-cuckold guy you're doing stuff with.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Well, cutting Cuckold would mean the page gets laid... to rest.
I'd say so, Infidelity Index was brought up earlier but there might be other alternatives.
Are there enough not-zero-context examples of "man is being cheated on/suspects he's being cheated on and feels emasculated" for Cuckold to remain a thing?
Used a very broad definition of "emasculated" (he thinks badly of himself as a result, it's used to portray him as weak, or it's used to embarrass or humiliate him) but found these in the examples:
- During Greg Pak's run on Incredible Hulk, the final two arcs had Betty Ross (as Red She-Hulk) beginning a relationship with Hulk's archnemesis, Tyrannus. This trope is specifically invoked numerous times by Tyrannus, specifically stating that he and Betty "did more than dance" at one point to make the Hulk angry enough to fight a common foe.
- The beginning of Wanted has the protagonist Wesley in a relationship with a girlfriend who is blatantly cheating on him with his best friend, and him being powerless to do anything about it. He later makes out in front of her with his new girlfriend.
- In 8 Mile, the protagonist Jimmy Smith (Eminem) walks in on his Love Interest (portrayed by the late Brittany Murphy), having sex with Wink, one of his friends. After a Cock Fight that Jimmy wins, Wink makes a Face–Heel Turn and joins a gang that later beat up Jimmy. During the rap battle at the finale, the fact that he was cuckolded is used to attempt to humiliate Jimmy. Jimmy comes out on top, anyway.
- Cries and Whispers: Maria's husband Joakim is a weakling who is acutely aware that his wife is cheating on him with the family doctor. He's so distressed by this that he stabs himself in the gut, but he even screws this up, and survives.
- All Things Fair: Frank is an alcoholic loser. He can hardly be bothered to blink when he eventually discovers that a Stig, a 15-year-old boy, is having sex with his wife. Eventually, Frank and Stig start hanging out.
- In Welcome Home Casey slept with a co-worker while drunk after a big fight with her boyfriend Bryan, leaving him insane with jealousy, to the point he's impotent whenever they try to get intimate due to him picturing her with another man.
- Clone High: Abe hooks up with Cleo about halfway through the show but makes next to no sexual progress with her while she clearly has been going behind his back with several implied incidents. Not long after they started dating, Cleo made several sexual advances at a disguised-as-a-male Joan, not worrying for a second about Abe. Poor Abe even calls himself a cuckold to a celebrity that Cleo is trying to get in the pants of.
But man, yeah, this is in bad shape. This line in the description: "The execution varies, as the trope is a sliding scale, with anywhere from very few, or nearly all, of the aforementioned elements included." really helps explain the decay.
That sounds like Up to __ or More but with application of the trope.
Thanks, I'm going to change my votes in the crowner.
I think something along the lines of "Emasculated Cuckold" is a valid trope, but something has to be done about Cuckold. A serious reworking, at the very least.
Given the number of valid examples of Emasuclated Cuckold posted by , why is everyone downvoting the option to redefine it that way?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Idk, I upvoted it.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Is it an “easier to scrap and start from scratch” situation?
How sweet it is
So far, the options with consensus are:
- Make Your Cheating Heart an index with a possible rename.
- Redefine Cuckold.
- Keep Sympathetic Adulterer and Good Adultery, Bad Adultery separate while redefining the latter.
I'll wait another day to see if the votes stabilize.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
I downvoted it for that reason. The large majority of examples are "cheating on a man (possibly) occurs". I'm neutral-to-no on keeping it, but I can't un-vote.
Edited by Tabs on Feb 28th 2020 at 9:52:20 AM
I second that this is a "easier to scrap and start from scratch" situation.
When I say I think we should cut Sympathetic Adulterer, and Good Adultery, Bad Adultery, I still think probably are some legit tropes to be found in that topical area. I just think that it would be a better to let the Trope Launch Pad find those, rather than trying to back-distill real tropes out of the mess we have now.
Well, if we cut the trope we'll go through the wicks anyway and undoubtedly find some valid examples for the retooled definition (which I did when I did the wick check for Good Adultery, Bad Adultery). Redefining just cuts out the TLP middleman, which may be a better option for tropes where the retool is not so drastic.
Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 28th 2020 at 6:52:08 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I guess that's fair, as long as this thread isn't forced to stay open while the TLP thread progresses (if the rest of cleanup finishes first).
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Can this be called?
Crown Description:
What should be done with the infidelity tropes? Options discussing the same tropes are mutually exclusive.
Have we had enough discussion for a page action crowner? How does one go about this — lots of pages being discussed; do we just have one? Are these options all right?