Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment - Violations, misuse, and other issues

Is the Useful Notes cleanup still going? It might be worth taking there if it’s not worth having as a Useful Notes page.

it's been inactive for a month, but i guess it's worth a try. on the other hand, should i begin cutting the real life section of Would Be Rude to Say "Genocide"?

Yeah, probably.

I have no personal issue with the Misplaced Nationalism page. I actually used to enjoy reading it, I thought it was interesting, and I don't think it was all that flame-y the last time I did.

i know but i don't think this website really cares about debating nationalism here. also, i'm a bit worried that someone might use the page as a soapbox for whatever nationalistic BS they spout about.

It's not debating nationalism, though, it's mostly just describing things certain nationalities fight over. Which can actually be pretty helpful for creators who want to write a more international story (setting and plot wise).

i know but the Administrivia.tropes needing TRS says, and i quote," Description goes on and on about how mentioning any nation on the internet will always start a flame war that can never be stopped." in addition, the trope is formatted in a way that resembles a web trope and not an actual useful notes page.

I mean, then we fix the page's description. It doesn't need to be cut, and we don't need TRS for that either.

All this talk of Tropes Needing TRS that I've seen here and in other parts of the site has made me legit wonder if we need a thread in Wiki Talk (or Trope Talk) to go through the list and remove all the non-TRS-able tropes on it. Might be too much work though. Good idea, or no?

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Dec 4th 2021 at 8:55:38 AM

I've been considering something like that, but such a project would require a ton of wick checks and the like... We should at least open the discussion about the bloat issues, though.

Imagine TR Sing the TRS thread, lmao.

Maybe a Wiki Talk thread with a title like "De-bloating Tropes Needing TRS"?

Maybe?

I don't think the bloat on Tropes Needing TRS is really that big a deal. If you think a trope doesn't need TRS, bring it to the TRS discussion thread and clear it up, then we'll save ourselves the trouble in the future. It's better to have that page so we can discuss entries ahead of time than have someone directly try to open a TRS thread on a trope that doesn't need it. And on the flip side, we can pick out the really problematic ones based on category and make a wick check.

My concern honestly has less to do with bloat and more knee-jerking. That is, since a lot if not most of the things on there are added without any sort of check being done, unless there's a long history of the trope being discussed and misused, it often just comes down to personal anecdotes or a personal misunderstanding. Like I said on the wick check thread, I feel like it'd make sense to encourage people to do the checks first and add them to Tropes Needing TRS second, instead of adding something to that page and then trying to determine if the issue is actually real... Or implicitly encouraging someone to make a TRS thread based on it without having actual evidence. I honestly kinda worry that in making the page I've indirectly contributed to people using TRS as a first resort for every issue with every trope.

TL;DR: I don't care about bloat, I care about people adding things without making sure a problem even exists.

Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 4th 2021 at 9:10:54 AM

Perhaps we need to establish some rules for adding entries to Tropes Needing TRS?

I could just be tired though. I've had a very long day. Maybe none of this is needed. I'm not overreacting, am I?

IDK. I don't think it's an overreaction, but I also don't want to create a million restrictions against adding things to what was originally intended to just be a helpful sandbox. I never intended it to become such a big thing. Now that it has though, I don't think there's a way to just retroactively start removing things unless we know for a fact there's no issue with those pages.

But this really is something for wiki talk.

Honestly I think it would've worked much better to remain a community sandbox, where we could list items for others to come back to later and discuss more properly, instead of an Administrivia page.

Right. I made it because so many pages kept getting mentioned and I wanted to keep track of them all. I never expected it to blow up.

Well the complaining sandbox in my description blew up too, and there are probably entries there that are also terrible (including some of my own) so that will eventually need to also be addressed.

This is all off-topic anyway, so let's re-rail the thread back on topic.

At the very least, this discussion would be better suited to the TRS meta thread if it doesn't get a dedicated Wiki Talk thread. The contents of Tropes Needing TRS aren't really relevant here unless something on it violates the ROCEJ.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 6th 2021 at 5:54:10 AM

I found this in Periphery Hatedom. I feel uneasy about having this on the page due to the trope its under being Flame Bait and the Take That! nature of the entry. Far-righters and neo-Nazis also aren't a demographic that you market towards.

• Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus unsurprisingly gets this treatment from far-right gamers and neo-Nazis due to its heavy emphasis on the racist, sexist, and violent ideology of the Nazis, and being set in a Nazi-occupied United States of America. This is more apparent with the rise of the far right amidst the election of a certain controversial businessman in late 2016, with the game being released just under a year later in 2017. While the Wolfenstein series had never portrayed Nazis in a positive light, the much more serious tone of its recent games ended up finally catching the attention of those those who were targeted in the first place.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Dec 6th 2021 at 1:15:53 PM

The jab at Trump alone makes the entry cutworthy (or at least trimworthy).

The Coroner Doth Protest Too Much has an extensive entry on Jeffrey Epstein's suicide and how it wasn't. I don't have much knowledge on the topic but I do know Epstein's death is a politically-heavy topic with a lot of conspiracy theories surrounding it. Any thoughts?

Kill that entry and make it look like a suicide.

Epstein is a weird situation because "Epstein didn't kill himself" isn't politically biased, but it is political.

YMMV.Santa Inc has been created, and not only is filled with complaining, but has this gem:

• Tainted by the Preview: The series quickly became infamous on YouTube just a few days after the first trailer dropped for its extreme crude humor and perceived anti-christmas atmosphere. The fact that said trailer included naked elf boobs, unsubtle digs at anti-vaxxers and holocaust deniers and just generally had a mean-spirited and vulgar presentation throughout really rubbed a lot of folks the wrong way.

...Are we supposed to feel bad for anti-vaxxers and Holocaust deniers? The way the entry is worded, it implies that the digs at them are a bad thing. What should be done here?